The ANTI Christ |
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amlhabibi2000
Guest Group Joined: 08 December 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 447 |
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Posted: 21 January 2006 at 12:10pm |
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Alaikoam Salam Good points. There is always another way to resolve a situation and suicide bombing is not one of the solutions. The question must be asked why some people behave in this way? Is their community life that desperate they feel no hope and give up in dispair. Maybe we should move this to another thread your thoughts.
Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi
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Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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Shams Zaman
Senior Member Male Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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Dear Sister Habibi! You have misread me once you say that I oppose that we should ask questions. I think the reason why we Muslims have become stagnant is that we have stopped asking questions and finding solution to them. But yourc case appears as different to me you are denying a thing without any evidence or popper reason. Quran says, "Will not they then ponder on Quran? If it had been from other than Allah they would have found lot of contradictions." (4:82). The orders of using reason and sense has been many a times used in Quran. The sucide bombers were not born due to your mentioned reasons. No one want to give his/her life in such a manner. It is only a desprate measure once you have lost your loved ones and you have been denied justice and you have no hope to get justice so this is why one blows himself up. I am no authority to comment on the valadity of the sucide bombings only what I know is that you cannot kill yourself just for revenge or someone who is innocent. Shams Zaman |
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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Dear Sis Anne, let me send my few words upon your last message where you say "I think there is always room to question any book brother other wise we would not be human and we would be blindly lead." It is perfectly ok to question the Quran for answers in understanding it with your own learning of it, however, it is a different thing not to accept the Quran as the book of Allah. In this context, I have never seen any questions that has been raised by you on this forum to understand or misunderstand. In fact, I did highlight, in some discussion, about your concepts totally out of the book. I shall appreciate your questioning based upon your own reading of the book rather than from any other source. Now concerning the rest of your post it is easier to realise that Quran is not the only source of guidance in Islam. Other sources are authentic sunnah of Prophet Mohammad and the Ijtihad to resolve issues of any nature in this world. Therefore, though not Quran, but the only thing that may change with time is the "Ijtihad" of the people varying both temporally as well as spatially. If there are clear Quranic verses on the issue, it is really not "according to Islam" to take any position in contrary to these verses. However, such is not the case with those issues that were based on Ijtihad only. I hope one would not mix the two in general understanding of Quran vs Islam.
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amlhabibi2000
Guest Group Joined: 08 December 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 447 |
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Alaikoam Salam I think there is always room to question any book brother other wise we would not be human and we would be blindly lead. Freedom to question is part of Life and part of being a Muslim and why should we not ask questions as that means we are doing our job as Muslims in my opinion. Otherwise you end up with things like suicide bombers, they obviously have not asked the right questions have they? I think their victims would like to ask questions too and why not, they and we all have the right and freedom to do so. Islam is not so lame as it cannot answer or bare to answer questions from the people. Asking people to folllow blindly without question does not always work for the best interests of everyone. So no brother I am a Muslim and very much so and the Islam I believe in is far more accepting of questions from the heart than your Islam appears to be. After all it is us who control Islam not the other way around. Islam may form the base or foundation and it is our job to work with this, change it if we have to to meet the new future challenges and the needs of our families. Islam is not as you would have it a block of stone, unchangeable unworkable no Islam is fluid like water and is ever evolving and flowing from it's source. Questions is how society grows and developes, questions are good and make us think not just be spoon fed whatever someone want to feed us, we can ask where the food came from, why, how, who made it, what is in it, where will it go, can you keep it for a long time etc.. Salam Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi
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Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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Shams Zaman
Senior Member Male Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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Dear Brother Ahmed ! Thanks for your comments and I hope our discussion will keep the positive direction and I am really obliged for your efforts and time. However although I completely agree that Hadith should supplement Quran but I thinks the cases which I presented does not conflict with Quranic decisions. I never said or intended to say that you deny Hadith because infact you quoted the Hadith and if I said something to this amount I appologise for that. And my dear brother Israfel! I indeed absolutely agree with you that we must not judge or make judgement on behalf of God. But this doesn't mean that we stop calling spade a spade. But here this is not the case, I tried to convey my point but perhaps I was unable to do that. See for example there are some basic principles and belifs to be called as Muslim. Quran is among one of them. If I don't believe Quran or Allah or Prophet I can not be called as a Muslim under any circumstances. Islam does not accept any apologetic approach to these basic principles, there are other thing on which the difference of opinion can exist like for example of mine and Ahmed Joya. And both can't be termed as wrong because we both hold the ground on certain accepted points. But as far as the basic principles are concerned there can't be any sort of compromise. So if I am standing in daylight it would be rediculous to say that we can't judge that whether its day or night, its certainly DAY. Similarly once sister Habibi does not accept Quran as the final word of God, she under any circumstances can not be termed as MUSLIM. Shams Zaman Pakistan. |
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amlhabibi2000
Guest Group Joined: 08 December 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 447 |
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Alaikoam Salam Thank you Israfil for a positive comment, your are right my heart is in the right place. As for judgement it is true we judge others and ourselves all the time and a lot of time without thinking about it that we are doing it. True we are judged on that final day when we stand before Allah and our lives are recounted for us and we meet our judgement and punishment or bonuses it it were. As I mention in my signiture, judgement day can be born in each moment and a time to survey our lives, our families, our communities, our Nation and World and see where we need guidance, education, counseling or consultation to resolve any challenges we may have. I call this journey a sacride Pilgrimage or Hajj. For we must view our lives and the lives of others including the seen and unseen as sacride and worthy of respect, caring and consideration. I believe this sacride journey, Hajj, Pilgrimage is part of the Great sorting out talked about in Surah 99, 1-8 when we will be sorted into groups and shown what we have done wrong and what we have done right and though it does not mention it I believe that is when we will recieve education, counseling, consultation to resolve and challenges we have and to rectify any negative behaviors we have. Though this process is already happening on a smaller scale I believe it could be worked or put into play in a bigger way Inshallah with a Inter Faith Call to an education, counseling, copnsultation with Personal Hajj to our lives our families..... and maybe just maybe create in the end a heaven a little closer even if only in our personal lives and community. Mahsallah may it be so! Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi
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Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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My dear bro Shams Zaman, thanks for your reply. I have following to submit for your analysis
Here, my dear bro, gradual nature of revelations of quranic injunctions doesn't support the idea of "against the Will of Allah" otherwise whole Quran would have revealed in one instance. Isn't it? Your second example is also not sufficient, when you say
Kindly bear in mind that I never denied the authority of Ahadith but to put them in their right perspective with regard to Quran. Indeed Allah knows the best. Edited by AhmadJoyia |
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Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Shams God's peace and blessings to you Ameen! I have to agree with Annie we must restrain fro judging others even though their views are different than the orthodox principles of Islam. Although myself I disagree with some stuff she says but her heart nonetheless is in the right place and I believe that God perhaps has a plan for her, Allahu Alim! Buit we must be cognizant of God and understand that all power and control is due to him and only to him we return for our judgement |
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