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The Jews call ’Uzair a son of Allah |
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George 
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 Topic: The Jews call ’Uzair a son of AllahPosted: 22 May 2006 at 7:46am |
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BMZ, Am I to guess that you cannot put the Surah about Ezra being the son of God into Arabic and that you cannot translated it into English? Does your failure to do that indicate that you, too, do not believe that the Arabic allows for the word "some" of the Jews? Peace |
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George
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Posted: 20 May 2006 at 8:58am |
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George, I never keep track of my posts and do not save them in a file. But that has been done. It should be in this thread, should it not? So you don't have to keep a copy of your posts in a file. Nevertheless. Please present 9:30 in Arabic and then give your translation in English. I said that the Arabic leaves no room for "some."
From you: "Jesus did have a special relationship with God, that of King Messiah, just as David did. Jesus as Son of God is in the figurative sense; it is certainly not in the literal sense." What special relationship David had with God, in your view? was David a King Messiah? David was a King. The King Messiah was to come through David. Psalm 2:7, 7 �I will declare the decree: God is speaking of David in Psalm 2:7 Mark 12 35 Then Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, �How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the Son of David? 36 For David himself said by the Holy Spirit: 37 Therefore David himself calls Him �Lord�; how is He then his Son?� [QUOTE =BMZ] From you:" Yes, Jesus was the Son of God in the figurative and not the literal sense. I don't know what you mean, "Jesus was not really the son of God." I don't understand what you mean. You have been talking to me for more than three and a half years. You know well! [/QUOTE] I have no idea what you are talking about.
From you: " The Arabic speaking Christians when they refer to the generic term "Allah" are worshipping YHVH. They don't think in terms of Islam, but in the terms of the Old and New Testaments. This is the same of any foreign speaking Christian. The word God is different in Spanish, German, etc. Most would tell you that they don't worship the same God that you do." You have confirmed my point that Allah means God in Arabic and when Christian Arabs speak of Allah, of course they mean Yahweh or HaSchem. THe Arab Christians are not worshipping my Allah. I know that. The word God is not even a real name used by the Semitic religions but all of us have borrowed it from English. Why would I have to confirm that the word God in Arabic means Allah? We all know that. But, the important question to ask is "which God?" Wouldn't an Arabic speaking person who is a Hindu say the word "Allah" when speaking of his god(s)?
From you: "I'm sure it does, but there is more to it, BMZ. When Christians and Jews worship Yahweh, YHVH, or Ha'Shem, they do not think of the Islamic God Allah. I'm sure you will agree that "Allah" is not God's personal name�it simply means God in Arabic. Also according to my friend who reads the Bible in Arabic does not call Jesus "Isa." I would have to look up what he calls him." The Jews do not worship the Christian God at all. Period! They worship their own God by the name of Yahuweh or YHVH or HaSchem, which have been borrowed by Christians from the Jews. The Christians have modified the God of Jews and worship a Triune God also known as "YHVH" or "Yahweh" but mainly call him God. Both the Jews and the Christians do NOT worship the Muslim God known by the name of Allah. The Jews most certainly worship the same God as the Christians. We only disagree on the nature of that one God. There was no borrowing, BMZ. Where do you get these ideas? You said: Both the Jews and the Christians do NOT worship the Muslim God known by the name of Allah. I would say you are accurate with that statement. You then admit that Allah is a different god than the one worshipped by Jews and Christians. [QUOTE-BMZ] Christian Arabs call Jesus, Yesuh in Arabic but in the dialect of Quraish, the Meccans, he is known as Essa or Eesa or Isaa or Iesa or Isa. Iesa comes very close to Ieasus. If you make the last 's' of Ieasus silent, it would be Ieasu which is very close to Yesu and also Iesa with not much stress on 'aaa', you will have then Essa or simply Esa, without a double 's' if you like. I will get back to you on this one as soon as I talk to my Arabic speaking friend.
In the Bible in Arabic, Jesus' name is written as Yesul-ul-maseeh or Yesuh maseeh. All the names of other biblical personalities are exactly the same as we, the Muslims call them. You will find this very interesting, like I did: In Arabic Bible, Jesus' last words (before he was saved Why would I find that interesting? The book is in Arabic. What else would I expect to find? If I were reading the book in Spanish I would expect to find Spanish, would I not?
Always glad to be of help. Good, then please do what you promised to do in my intro to this post. [/QUOTE] Peace |
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BMZ
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Posted: 19 May 2006 at 9:29pm |
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Greetings, Servie Mostly my dear friend George keeps me too busy. I love discussing the Crucifiction. You take care and have a nice weekend. BR BMZ |
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BMZ
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Posted: 19 May 2006 at 9:23pm |
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George, I never keep track of my posts and do not save them in a file. But that has been done. From you: "Jesus did have a special relationship with God, that of King Messiah, just as David did. Jesus as Son of God is in the figurative sense; it is certainly not in the literal sense." What special relationship David had with God, in your view? was David a King Messiah? From you:" Yes, Jesus was the Son of God in the figurative and not the literal sense. I don't know what you mean, "Jesus was not really the son of God." I don't understand what you mean. You have been talking to me for more than three and a half years. You know well! From you: " The Arabic speaking Christians when they refer to the generic term "Allah" are worshipping YHVH. They don't think in terms of Islam, but in the terms of the Old and New Testaments. This is the same of any foreign speaking Christian. The word God is different in Spanish, German, etc. Most would tell you that they don't worship the same God that you do." You have confirmed my point that Allah means God in Arabic and when Christian Arabs speak of Allah, of course they mean Yahweh or HaSchem. THe Arab Christians are not worshipping my Allah. I know that. The word God is not even a real name used by the Semitic religions but all of us have borrowed it from English. From you: "I'm sure it does, but there is more to it, BMZ. When Christians and Jews worship Yahweh, YHVH, or Ha'Shem, they do not think of the Islamic God Allah. I'm sure you will agree that "Allah" is not God's personal name�it simply means God in Arabic. Also according to my friend who reads the Bible in Arabic does not call Jesus "Isa." I would have to look up what he calls him." The Jews do not worship the Christian God at all. Period! They worship their own God by the name of Yahuweh or YHVH or HaSchem, which have been borrowed by Christians from the Jews. The Christians have modified the God of Jews and worship a Triune God also known as "YHVH" or "Yahweh" but mainly call him God. Both the Jews and the Christians do NOT worship the Muslim God known by the name of Allah. Christian Arabs call Jesus, Yesuh in Arabic but in the dialect of Quraish, the Meccans, he is known as Essa or Eesa or Isaa or Iesa or Isa. Iesa comes very close to Ieasus. If you make the last 's' of Ieasus silent, it would be Ieasu which is very close to Yesu and also Iesa with not much stress on 'aaa', you will have then Essa or simply Esa, without a double 's' if you like. In the Bible in Arabic, Jesus' name is written as Yesul-ul-maseeh or Yesuh maseeh. All the names of other biblical personalities are exactly the same as we, the Muslims call them. You will find this very interesting, like I did: In Arabic Bible, Jesus' last words (before he was saved http://www.ibs.org/bibles/arabic/PDF/NT/MATTHEW.pdf However, I did enjoy reading Matthew in Arabic.
Edited by bmzsp |
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George
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Posted: 19 May 2006 at 4:42pm |
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I have already done that. It must be somewhere. I don't remember seeing it. Could you please find it and point me to it? Thanks.
From you: "YHVH had "sons" by relationship in the figurative sense. We are not talking about other Gods besides YHVH." Would you then accept that Jesus had no real relationship of any kind with God but he was just like a son, figuratively speaking. Jesus did have a special relationship with God, that of King Messiah, just as David did. Jesus as Son of God is in the figurative sense; it is certainly not in the literal sense.
Would you then also agree if I say,"God took Jesus as a son in figurative sense only and that Jesus was not really the son of God." Yes, Jesus was the Son of God in the figurative and not the literal sense. I don't know what you mean, "Jesus was not really the son of God." I don't understand what you mean.
I am also not talking about any other gods besides YHVH, the Lord God Almighty Allah of Noah and Abraham and the Allah of Christian Arabs. The Arabic speaking Christians when they refer to the generic term "Allah" are worshipping YHVH. They don't think in terms of Islam, but in the terms of the Old and New Testaments. This is the same of any foreign speaking Christian. The word God is different in Spanish, German, etc. Most would tell you that they don't worship the same God that you do.
Just a little note here: When you speak of Yahweh or Yahuweh or YHWH or Haschem, It's Allah only who comes to our minds, nobodyelse. I'm sure it does, but there is more to it, BMZ. When Christians and Jews worship Yahweh, YHVH, or Ha'Shem, they do not think of the Islamic God Allah. I'm sure you will agree that "Allah" is not God's personal name�it simply means God in Arabic. Also according to my friend who reads the Bible in Arabic does not call Jesus "Isa." I would have to look up what he calls him. Peace |
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Servetus
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Posted: 19 May 2006 at 9:11am |
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It�s kind of you, but not pressing BMZ. It seems you are heavily involved in other topics and posts and, as far as I am concerned, this is sufficient for now. Thank you, again. Best regards, Serv |
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BMZ
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Posted: 19 May 2006 at 8:35am |
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Hi Servie, I have not really read that the Jewish King massacred the Christians of Najran although some say that happened. The verses need not be taken in that context. It simply says that people, who believed in God were persecuted and tortured, while the tortures did enjoy and had their weird fun. I agree that the Jewish scholar would say the same thing while conveniently forgetting what they did to my dear Jesus. I think you and I are on the same plane of frequency here and I shall collaborate with you and collate some statements on this matter. BR, Mate BMZ |
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Servetus
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Posted: 19 May 2006 at 8:15am |
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BMZ, I was not meaning to be obscure in my above, most recent post, and I should have said thank you not only for corroborating but also for supplementing my understanding of the Surah. This is what I should clarify. When I say that with my reference to the massacre of �the� Christians by Dhu Nuwas a leitmotif is emerging, I might better and more directly have said that I was attempting to mirror, gently and as closely as possible (though no doubt imperfectly), George�s logic as stated above: �I can find no evidence that the Jews ever called Uzair a son of Allah, not from Christian sources and not from Jewish sources. I contacted a Jewish scholar and he said the same thing.� Continuing the theme, I can find no evidence that the Jews ever massacred the Christians from Jewish sources (by implication, Arab, Quranic and {I add} Christian sources are not permitted as evidence). I contacted a Jewish scholar and he said the same thing. Maybe this post wasn�t necessary but I thought I should explain. Thanks again. Your friend, |
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BMZ wrote:
Just try pronouncing Yesuh with less stress on Y and you will get Esa without any difficulty. 
) "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani are also written in Arabic as "Elahi, Elahi, lama taraktani" which means "My God, My God, why do you abandon me?" or "My God, My God, why do you leave me alone like this?".