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chastity, virginity

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Angela View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 June 2006 at 7:45am

Originally posted by ak_m_f ak_m_f wrote:



To all the Non muslims, stop funding Salman's India right now. see it choke before your eyes today.


Nah Ak,

I have to many HINDU friends in India, not to love that country.  But, then again, Lakshmi ran away with an American boy and got married to avoid an arranged marriage and Purvi is here...as are the Patels.  Hey, I guess I don't need to help....I mean, they are getting all our jobs anyway right???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ak_m_f Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2006 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by salman_s salman_s wrote:


it does not really matter....because all the deeds of non muslims are going in vain....as they are not muslims.....and the greatest sin that they are committing is denying this: There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah, and Prophet Muhammad is the believing slave and final messenger of Allah



To all the Non muslims, stop funding Salman's India right now. see it choke before your eyes today.


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Angela View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2006 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by umsami umsami wrote:

Angela:

I'm sorry.  You made assumptions about me, I've made assumptions about you.  Both were wrong.  You seem to assume that I'm not American, well I am.  I too have studied many faiths and cultures... and lived around the world.  I reverted... not from knowing any Muslims, but from simply reading the Qur'an back when I was 12.  Meeting actual Muslims has been the worst and best thing for my faith.  LOL 

I actually did assume you were American.  Most foreigners don't know enough about LDS to pick up on Joseph or missionaries.  BTW, If you are ever bugged by LDS Missionaries, just to let all you ladies know.  They are not supposed to teach Muslims.  Not all the young men know this because it doesn't come up to often.  If you kindly let them know you are Muslim and they cannot teach you, 99% of them will leave you in peace.  (There's always that 1% that are idiots. LOL)

But, I'm here to build bridges.  Thank you for giving me a chance. 

Thanks for the information too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote umsami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2006 at 7:33pm

Assalamu Alaikum:

One other one that I'd add (that is important)..

what couple's marriage in our community do you admire? would you be willing to ask them to mentor us during our first few years of marriage?? (Ideally, not somebody you're related because they tend to take sides.)

Also,

Ask about wills... do you agree with the Islamic concept of wills? How would you take care of me should you die and our kids were still young?

ARe you a saver or a spender?

Regarding the IVF/adopting/can't have kids... be sure to ask two ways... one if the medical issue was with me, the other with you... I've found out that guys who may not have been so hot about adoption suddenly think it's a good idea when their equipment has the issues.  If there is a discrepency... ask why the difference?

Also...be sure to ask about family expectations regarding who you marry... both sides.  Can be very difficult to live with if you are not the xyz-speaking girl that they always wanted their son to marry.  Even if he has no issues with it.

If you have interfaith friends, ask if it is OK for you to attend church, synogogue, temple with them if they asked.  What if it's for a wedding or baptism?

Also...look for books that deal with situation questions (there used to be a game called Scruples that did this)...  "What would you do if... "

-you found out that our daughter was no longer a virgin?

-Allah(swt) gave you a choice.  You could either live another one year and know the time of your death or live at least ten years and not know when you would die.  Which would you prefer, why?

-If you don't wear hijab.. .if I decided to wear hijab.  If you do, I decided to take it off.

-You found out that I was no longer praying.  Would it matter why?  How would you help me to get back on track?  How would you deal if you found out your husband was no longer praying?

-you won a million dollars?

-you knew that you could do this xyz and not be caught.  Would you do it?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote umsami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2006 at 6:36pm

Somebody asked about questions to ask your potential spouse... there are a few good books of questions that you can ask somebody to learn more about them.  Here are some I'd include.  If your backgrounds are more dissimilar, I'd probe further... as cultural expectations can really vary.  Don't forget that your nikkah can include whatever you want it to... so if you agree that it is O.K. for you to work or do whatever.. put that in! 

It's sometimes a good idea to answer these separately... that way, people are more likely to be honest.

Note: these are ones I often use with women who plan to revert/marry at the same time (which in general, i don't recommend)

1)Have you read the entire Qur'an yet?

2) Have you read a collection of Sahih ahadith yet?

For both, what passages or ahadith did you question or wonder
about? I wouldn't revert until you've done both... even if you
never managed to read through the Bible as a Christian.

Do you have Muslim friends?

Have you met his family? Or at least spoken to them?? Do they accept that their son wants to marry an American and a revert? What about his friends?

If planning to move someplace to live with your husband, have you ever visited?? What did you think?


Has your family met him? Do they know you want to marry him? Do they know you want to convert? How would they feel if you started
wearing hijab? How would they feel if their grandchildren had
Muslim names? Do you want your son to have your father's middle
name some day?? Do you know that it is unlikely your husband would
agree to that... both because it is not a Muslim name and Egyptian
Naming Standards... First Name, Husband's Name (Even if it's a
girl), Grandfather's Name, Great-Grandfather's Name. How would you
feel if your daughter's middle name was your husband's name?

If you are a revert, What about Christmas, Easter, and Birthdays? Will you still celebrate with your family? Will you and your husband allow your family to give your kids Christmas gifts and Easter baskets...or is
that strictly forbidden? How will you deal with Christmas?

Do you have a Wali? Please do not proceed in marriage without one.
You need to find somebody who will stand up for your rights
Islamically. A lot of times, in my community, we pair new converts
with Muslim Mentor families. The father of the family then acts as
the Wali.

Have your friends met him? What do your non-Muslim and Muslim
friends think of him?? What is his reputation in the community?

Have you discussed your mahr/dowry? Is it realistic from both standpoints.  If you needed to re-establish yourself, could you with this amount of money.

Do you understand the implications of your husband's home country's  custody laws on your children? Does he understand your country's custody laws and divorce laws as well?( For example, in Egypt, the courts may grant you custody if they are under a certain age, but your husband can prevent you from taking them out
of the country.)

What does your husband feel your duties are as his wife? What do you feel they are? (Think about things as basic as cooking. We
Americans tend to eat out a lot... Egyptians, for example, do not. Can you really see yourself preparing breakfast, lunch, and dinner seven
days per week?)

Do you have friends (from work/school) of the opposite sex? How
would your husband feel if you were in contact with them once you
are married?

Hijab... does your husband expect you to wear it once you marry?
What about clothing... is O.K. with modest Western-style clothing or
does he expect you to wear Arab- or Asian-styled clothing? Will he let you wear pants/jeans/make-up?? (Note: What you do know (and his
reaction)... may be very different when you are married... and when
you visit his family.)

What about work, school, etc.? Be sure to put things like that in
your marriage contract.

If you plan to move to another country with your spouse, and your husband gets a job with a typical salary... how often can you realistically expect to visit the States?

Have you discussed 4:34? Domestic Violence is a problem
everywhere... but note, that in most Muslim countries it is not a
crime and is prevalent. Even though Islam puts limitations on the
force and what situations it can occur in... those limits are rarely
kept.

If you've ever had a pet dog, note that most Muslims do not own dogs as pets. Those who do, keep them strictly outside and strictly as guard dogs/working dogs. They are not seen as "Members of the
Family" by most.

Are you used to having maids, cooks, etc. Will you be able to continue to live that way once you marry?

Can you continue your education? How far? Is it OK for you to work at your profession... what limitations, if any.  (Like some guys want you to stop working once kids come.)

How would your husband feel if you made more money than he did?

Does he pray? How often?  What about you? (Please be honest.)

How much Qur'an have each of you memorized?

Would you send your kids to an Islamic school... why/why not/depends on quality of academics?

Would you require your daughters to wear hijab? If so, at what age?

How does he feel about your family? How do you feel about his?

How neat or messy are you... no really. :) (Ask family members about this)

Have you ever lived with a roommate? If yes, what did that other person do that annoyed you?

Have you ever lived apart from your parents? How did that go... financially, emotionally, etc.

Where do you want to live? Would you ever move away from your family?

What type of lifestyle do you aspire to?

What charity work do you do...or hope to do?  Do you pay zakat?

Talk about budgets... as well as how much money he feels is an adequate allowance.

How do you feel about car loans, mortgages, credit cards, etc.

How many kids do you want? Are you OK with IVF? What about adopting if we can't have them ourselves (or in addition to having kids ourselves)?

Who do you expect to spend holidays with... (Sometimes people assume all holidays will always be spent with their family)

How would you feel about one or both sets of our parents living with us when they are old?

How do you react when you are mad? Do you tend to want to resolve things quickly... or wait for things to die down? Silent treatment or a talker? (Ask friends about this)

Would you conisder premarital counseling?

What are your favorite foods? What foods can't you stand? (Ex...I hate fish, my husband loves it.  So... should I still cook it, should he have to go out for it, etc.)

Do you exercise? How do you feel about a woman going to a womans only gym... what about a mixed gym? What about swimming pools and the beach?

Did you grow up with Sisters? Did you ever have a girlfriend?

Have you ever been engaged before? What happened?

What worries you about me... what you know of me so far?

Can bring up politics as well... but if you'd like somebody to debate with, then maybe you don't want to agree on everythign :)

How much will you be willing to help around the house?  Are you OK with my having one day or afternoon off per week when we have kids?  How do you feel about nannys, baby sitters, etc.?

Do you expect our kids to only have Muslim friends?

Just a few to think about.  I have more, but no time to type.  Sorry :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote umsami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2006 at 6:03pm

Angela:

I'm sorry.  You made assumptions about me, I've made assumptions about you.  Both were wrong.  You seem to assume that I'm not American, well I am.  I too have studied many faiths and cultures... and lived around the world.  I reverted... not from knowing any Muslims, but from simply reading the Qur'an back when I was 12.  Meeting actual Muslims has been the worst and best thing for my faith.  LOL 

I've also been active in AIDS-prevention since 1986.  I've had many friends die.  As I've said before, I do not disagree with you that AIDS can be spread through heterosexual sex... nor of the gravity of the situation in India, Africa, and the rest of the world.  I applaud the fact that they are now trying to manufacture their own drugs--so that they are no longer at the mercy of US pharma companies (one of whom I used to work for). 

My only point in posting (which had to regarding the topic of this thread) that you can't necessarily believe what somebody tells you... regarding their sexuality or virginity, for that matter.  The issue that we face here in the US right now is that men, particularly in the African-American community, are having homosexual relationships but not disclosing them to their heterosexual partners.  Thus, the serious risk to African-American women (or I should say, whomever their partners are)--lets not forget, that a good portion of Muslimahs in the United States are AFrican-American.  These men themselves do not consider themselves gay, regardless of the behavior, so when questioned if they are gay, they say no.  There is a giant-stigma of being gay in the AFrican-American community similar to that among Muslims and Latinos.  (And the LDS community as well, from what I've been told by friends.)  That stigma can kill.  If you're in a Netflix type of mood, why not rent the movie, "Touch of Pink."  Perhaps you'll understand what I'm talking about.  Gay Muslim men are rarely out.  Most marry unknowing women... and continue to have affairs.  That is my point.  There is such a certainty that homosexuality does not exist among Muslims, that many people ignore this fact.

No matter who you are marrying, regardless of what they have told you, you should require an AIDS test as well as an STD profile.  For your own sake.  He may not have AIDS, but other STDs can seriously affect your fertility... as well as increase your risk of cervical cancer.

Peace.

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Angela View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2006 at 1:46pm

I'll post a reply to it to throw it back to the top of the Women's section.

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schwester View Drop Down
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where she's put them? could you share them with us, please?
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