RAPES

kim! wrote: Ali Zaki wrote:     In addition, any Chrisitian who reads the Bible must admit (if they are honest), that there are many parts which are confusing, shocking and even pornographic (i.e., descriptions of Prophets having incesteous relationships with their children, etc.).  True - most us have never read the entire Bible. Mind you, and I mean no disrespect, most Christians would probably choke at the thought of a prophet marrying a child under the age of 10 as much as reading about other prophets committing incest. Besides, if you believe the creation story, incest was inevitable back in The Old Days because Adam and Eve only had 2 sons. Where did the rest of the human race come from? Kim...

If God made Eve out of the rib of Adam - what prevented Him from creating other women as wives for Cain (Genesis 4:17) and Abel?

What's the other reference to Prophets commiting incest?  Are you talking about Lot in Gen. 19?  Where his daughters get him drunk and the Torah says, " He was not aware of it"?

btw: Christians and Jews do not even consider Lot a prophet..

To be honest, any document that goes from Hebrew, to Greek, to Latin and then to another language is going to have errors in translation.  This could drastically change the meaning of stories and affect the meaning intended.  That is why the Dead Sea Scrolls were looked at with great hope as a way of clearing up some of the fogginess.  Truth be told, the OT is often looked at as a giant prologue for many Christians.  Many protestant churches overlook the OT and don't focus on the stories other than to highlight the major events in the set up for Christs arrival.  Growing up I learned about Creation, Adam and Eve, Abraham, Moses, Solomon, David and Goliath (the neglected to teach us about the whole Bathseba and David getting himself in trouble.), Daniel and the Lions and oh, I think there was this guy named Job.  Then its right on to John the Baptist and Jesus.  Most Protestant churches I've been in only focus on the Gospels and the New Testament.  Many don't know the stories of the OT, especially the ones like started this thread.  They don't know about Lots daughters, unless a preacher was getting particularly fire and brimstone for the sermon that sunday.  Fact is there are alot of errors in translation, but where the divergence and problems come from is not the translation but the interpretation.  The OT has a very historical bent to it at points, other places are parable and lessons.  Whatever the view point, the places that point to rape and adultry are not there to encourage, but to deter.  I think it was meant at a compare and contrast.  The wicked will be punished, the Bible and the Koran both promise that, we can in the end only have Faith that God's wisdom is infallible and that he will sort out the whole mess in the end.

Is it not amusing that Jews,who wrote the book do not believe everything in the Bible is literally true or even wise, but Christians do.In the new testament the very story of Jesus is different in different Gospels in one version after King Harad killed the newborns he fled to Egypt in, another he stayed with realtives in israel. I gues the Evangelical Calvinists must believe in parallel Uiverses where Jesus lived in both.

Edited by zenman

Peace to Kim,

Your direct question is easy to answer (of course), NO! Why not? The reasons are many 1.) A nine year old (in the United States in 2005) is a young child and not remotely ready, willing or able to accept either the rights or responsibilities of marriage, 2.) It is illegal 3.) I do not have the means nor the desire to take on the responsibilities of supporting and protecting another wife (since I already have one)...and the list goes on and on...

Islam is a universal relgion and is equally applicable to all people in all ages and places. As a result, Islam gives clear guidance on things such as the (wajib) and forbidden (haram), the recommended (mustahab) and discouraged (makruh). Some types of decision are left (completely) to the individual, and others are left conditionally to the individual. The decisions in the last category will depend on the time and society in which the individual lives, as well as the regulations of Islam.

The age of marriage is one example of the last category, as are many other things (such as polygamy, marriage to "those whom your right hand posseses (which is not applicable in our age), and others). Islam is not a rigid or prudish religion, and it gives rights and responsibilities to men and women that are consistent with their natural desires and duties.

Regarding the molestation of the 12-year old boy by his teacher, this is a completely different matter for several reasons. For one thing, this did not occur in a Muslim society and, therefore, their is no question as to whether punishment would be instituted according to Sharia law. Let's say it did occur in a Muslim society (for the sake of argument), then the it is a double (or maybe triple) crime because 1.) In Islamic law, a boy cannot consent to marriage until puberty (which is much later in boys, around 14-15) and 2.) It is also adultry (on the womens part) because (I believe) she was already married or fornication (if she was unmarried).

One more point, If a female (regardless of her age) is still living with her parents, then the man must be given permission by the father to marry his daughter. What is better protection for the women then her fathers consent.

Peace.