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Pope Benedict�s Remarks

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runner View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 September 2006 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by ak_m_f ak_m_f wrote:

...Christian fundamentalists who have called him a paedophile and a terrorist, would ordinarily make common cause with the Pope; yet on the subject of Islam they are in full agreement...


Please furnish some evidence to support this wild and intemperate accusation.

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Edited by runner
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ak_m_f Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 September 2006 at 8:06am
The Pope�s good intentions seem far from obvious. Hatred of Islam is so ubiquitous and so deeply rooted in Western culture that it brings together people who are usually at daggers drawn. Neither the Danish cartoonists, who published the offensive caricatures of the holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) last February, nor the Christian fundamentalists who have called him a paedophile and a terrorist, would ordinarily make common cause with the Pope; yet on the subject of Islam they are in full agreement.

Muslims are often unaware of the hatred the West holds towards Islam, and are even more perplexed as to the cause. If anyone had a right to be angry, should it not be the Islamic Ummah?


Edited by ak_m_f
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dirka_Dirka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 September 2006 at 6:17pm

KORAN: 2:62

(Translation of) YUSUFALI: "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. "

Both Christianity and Islam are monotheistic religions. The power of the Holy Spirit, the power through human flesh by Jesus, and God's power itself shown by the trinity is a direct representation of God. These two religions should live in peace...they both follow the same God. Would God want his followers to kill other followers of him? I believe it is hypocrisy to try and point out which religion is more violent then the other. God intended "violence" both literal and metaphorical for the sinners of the world. In the verse quoted above from the Qur'an, it proves, without doubt, that there should not be jihad against Christians or those who believe in God alone.

The Crusades, early century Jihad's, Hitler, and Bin Laden have all tainted the goodness of these religions. But do we even need religion in order to get to heaven? Do we have to follow texts, who have been interpreted by man, who is naturally sinnful, to get to heaven? Can a man have no religious connection and believe in God and still get to heaven? Has it been said by God that one must have a religion? If it is not stated anywhere that religion must be attained by a man in order to get to heaven, then is it safe to say that as long as you hold faith and believe in God to be the lord and savior of all that that is the key element to salvation? And not if you picked the right religion to follow and live in fear that you just might have picked the wrong religious lifestyle to abide by.

Religion has become the very word no sinner wants to hear. We are here on earth to worship God and lead others to him. People have tainted religion to the point of no return. It makes non-believers repulsive to the thought of God. The purpose of Christianity is not to just help Christians and the purpose of Islam is not to just help muslims. Since we both believe in the same God we both need to preach to the world in a peaceful manner that non-believers will WANT to hear why they too should believe in God and recieve his wonderful blessings.

The real route to peace is to not focus on peace. Obviously both religions have tried to bring peace to the world. The end result has only been death. The sword does not bring peace. Understanding and reason bring peace. Reason is probably one of the greatest gifts of free-will given to man. Why can we not utilize this in our efforts for peace. Why do we not allow ourselves to stop being ignorant of each other and understand one another at a more deeper level. One man is not greater than another despite their religious views, ethnicity, or sex.

If you, a non-believer of any faith, were looking down the barrel of a 9mm, sweating unbearably, trembling with fear; your family just murdered in cold blood, your wife laying cold and lifeless next to you, her blood creating a small river as you sit there on your knees in execution position, and the man holding the gun to your head demanded that you convert to his religion or else you will die...would you convert because you have just then and there reasoned your way into knowing that this man's religion is true or you take the easy route and plead 'yes' because you hold your very life as more valuable? Chances are, under the extreme conditions, no room for mindful persuasion, you'd choose to live another day and accept whatever illustrious methods the man pointing the gun to your head has made for himself to follow in order to be "saved".

Violence is not the way to getting a sinner/infidel to God. Violence is the means to the end of the sinner who des not decide to follow the way of God after he/she has been given ample opportunity to convert through peaceful example. And this violence is metaphorical. God is the ultimate judge. So who are we to kill one who does not follow God. This is what eternal damnation is for.

We should not kill based on diversity. We should not even put down those who do not accept our faiths to be true. Rather, exceed their expectations and do your best to bring all to God.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote runner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2006 at 8:03am
Originally posted by Angel Angel wrote:

Originally posted by Hanan Hanan wrote:

Angel: I do believe that both books have/speak of violence in them.

That is true and I am far from understanding why it is so. I know that in time, inshallah, we will be given the answers.

true I guess, but in the mean time it is confusing when both proclaim peace and morals



Indeed it is, but it would be an error to assume that mention (even in positive terms) would be an endorsement of violence in any contemporary setting, conditions have changed so much since their words were taken down.  And that is the manner of our confusion about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:59am
Originally posted by Hanan Hanan wrote:

Angel: I do believe that both books have/speak of violence in them.

That is true and I am far from understanding why it is so. I know that in time, inshallah, we will be given the answers.

true I guess, but in the mean time it is confusing when both proclaim peace and morals

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mariyah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2006 at 4:10am
Originally posted by peacemaker peacemaker wrote:

Maryah:

Your post in the thread titled "Pope remarks reveal harder stance" and another post in that thread was moved in this thread to keep the topic at one place.

Peace

My apologies, I will post elsewhere, I forgot the rules differ in  this forum.

Wa salaam

"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2006 at 11:42am

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Edited by Hanan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2006 at 10:12am

I think Nana it is because people want to beleive they are better then other people. We lump ourselves into groups and want to feel superior. The thing is all people have the capability of doing great good and great evil. Mosts faiths enjoin good and try to do away with the bad.

It is my faith is better then your faith, or my religion is better then yours. Which may or may not be true, we'll find out when we pass away. But the IDEA that whole groups of people are better human beings based upon a set of ideas and thoughts is fallacy.

 

 

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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