New Group Request for Liberal Muslims

Tasneem wrote: I think in the interest of Muslims who are interested in learning, you should leave this thread open, instead of deleting posts, so everyone can discuss and learn. Is this not Ijtihad? Alternatively, you write only your viewpoint and don't allow any discussions at all. The useless posts on Islam and Hinduism are going on endlessly, why is it you are allowing that which is of no benefit to any Muslim, and here there is learning for Muslims, and only because it goes against your views, you wish to delete it.  Let us be humble about our knowledge which is limited and let us open our hearts and minds to learning.

What is the topic of this thread, my dear?

are ur concerns within the topic and in an appropriate forum, or are they off? Just think about it with a cool mind before thinking there is a problem with the moderators here.

In other words, please start a NEW thread for your discussion in a forum that is meant for it .... u are writing in "comments and complaints" This pertains to coments and complaints you may have about the working of this webboard, and not about Islam as a system or muslims as a community.

Peace.

"the christians and jews changed there religion"

I am a Roman Catholic/Christian.  We have not changed our religion since it was first established by Christ over 2000 years ago.  I have no idea what the Jews have changed.  But I do know the Protestant Christians have changed their beliefs many times, as is evidenced in the large number of Protestant denominations.  Also, I believe that we are all, Catholic, Muslim, and Jew, brothers/sisters, as we are all sons of Abraham.  Additionally, I believe human beings have been given a "free will" to determine what they will and will not believe.  So atheists and agnostics have much good to contribute to the world too.  We cannot force them to believe in a God which they honestly feel does not exist.  If they have good morals and values, they should be welcomed to contribute their opinions to conversations as well.  No one has to agree with anyone, but EVERYONE should be given the opportunity to express their opinion. (Just my opinion).

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I fail to see how open discussion harms anyone, as long as it is done with maturity and respect for all those involved in the conversations.  We are adults, and we know we have beliefs which differ from one another, but also we share beliefs on many subjects.  There are many values upon which we all agree.  Don't you believe it is possible that if we focused more on our agreements and the beliefs we DO have in common, rather than arguing constantly about our differences, we could solve a lot of problems present in the world?  We are ALL God's children.  HE loves us ALL.  Why can't WE love and respect each other, as HE told us to do?  Or am I mistaken?

Peace to All,

Patty

Wa-alaikum-Salaam

Thankyou for your response , but I do not understand what the problem is with you people. The information I have provided is from Quran and you do not want to discuss on that, instead you give wrong interpretations of what I have stated. What do you mean that " You may like to follow another rule which the scholars have laid down..."? What rule am I following  and which scholar do you have preference for? I would like to correct myself if I am wrong and I look forward to the verses of the Quran that you say I am contradicting. I don't blindly listen to scholars without first reading up. Unfortunately, a lot of our brothers and sisters take the short cut of listening to the scholars (who sometimes create terrible controversies by making unwarranted comments, as in a recent case in the country where you live), because of this they give up learning on their own.

I think in the interest of Muslims who are interested in learning, you should leave this thread open, instead of deleting posts, so everyone can discuss and learn. Is this not Ijtihad? Alternatively, you write only your viewpoint and don't allow any discussions at all. The useless posts on Islam and Hinduism are going on endlessly, why is it you are allowing that which is of no benefit to any Muslim, and here there is learning for Muslims, and only because it goes against your views, you wish to delete it.  Let us be humble about our knowledge which is limited and let us open our hearts and minds to learning.

Once Hazrat Umar was giving a sermon and made a comment that the women were asking a lot of dowry to get married. A lady amongst the listeners spoke and said to Hazrat Umar that it is none of his business to comment on this. And Hazrat Umar said that I was wrong and the lady is right. So we would like to see this scholarly approach like Hazrat Umar from our contemporary scholars. Can you sight any examples of this kind? Everyone seems to be an authority by themselves and don't wish to give room for any discussions. Quoting Dr Mahathir Mohammed in his recent speech at Islamicity "Islam does allow for differences in the interpretations. But does it allow interpretations which are so different as to cause accusations of not being Islamic and the believers not being Muslim, so different that each is willing to fight and kill because of what each claim to be heresy on the part of the others." Seems like we are on this path.

At the outset let me say that if we patiently gave thought to other people�s expressions with a cool mind we would not waste time in arguing who is right or wrong. My quote that you have quoted I think amply explains the essence of your explanation.

I have said : For practising Islam in everyday life you don't need any Mujtahid to tell you what to do, you can read Quran and Ahadith and follow.

I have qualified my statement by the word everyday life meaning day to day living that encompasses salaat, fasting, our behaviour with each other, etc etc, majority of the information on this is available for Muslims in the Quran and Ahadith. No one is suggesting that by doing this you would derive a �legal ruling� as you have stated.

054.017, 054.022, 054.032, 054.040
YUSUFALI: And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

�While the Quran sums up the highest philosophy of the inner life, its simple directions for conduct are plain and easy to understand and act upon. Is this not in itself a part of the Grace of God? And what excuse is there for any one to fail in receiving admonition?� Yusuf Ali

003.007
YUSUFALI: He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

�This passage gives us an important clue to the interpretation of the Holy Quran. Broadly speaking it may be divided into two portions, not given separately, but intermingled; viz.(1) the nucleus or foundation of the Book, literally �the mother of the Book�, and (2) the part which is figurative, metaphorical, or allegorical. It is very fascinating to take up the latter, and exercise our ingenuity about its inner meaning, but it refers to such profound spiritual matters that human language is inadequate to it, and though people of wisdom may get some light from it, no one should be dogmatic as the final meaning is known to God alone. The commentators usually understand the verses �of established meaning� (muhkam) to refer to the categorical orders of the Shari-at (or the Law) which are plain to everyone�s understanding��.. We must try to understand it as best we can, but not waste our energies in disputing about matters beyond our depth.� Yusuf Ali

It seems you are unable to understand what others write and are totally confused. On the one hand you accept that people are allowed to ponder and reflect and on the other hand you say people have to refer to a �Mujtahid�, aren�t you confused?

The first ayat that came down from Allah was �Iqraa� meaning READ and UNDERSTAND. This is what every Muslim is expected to do. The state of the UMMA is in a most pitiful condition only because most of us do not read and any free thinking person including some scholars are stifled. Today suicide bombing has become a tool to kill innocent people only because the scholars are not doing their duty. Dependency on scholars alone has led us to the condition that we are in today.

My understanding of a facilitator�s duty is to only facilitate the project he/she is assigned to, but when the facilitator becomes a project participant, the facilitator becomes instrumental in killing the project. Please do not edit this in the interest of quality.