Cheers, Doo-bop, let�s do that (get along fine).

Serv

Edited by Servetus

Doo-bop,

Maybe we, you and I, have gotten off on the wrong foot, as they say, and are off to an unnecessarily bad start.  I will take responsibility for that and try to correct it.  Please allow me to introduce myself and to welcome you to the forum.  I am a non-Muslim but, by now, rather long-term guest here myself and am pleased to meet you.  I hope that your time here is productive.

Best regards,

Serv

Doo-bop wrote: bmzsp wrote: Servetus wrote:  - pl tell me how Allah is praying to Allah.... Replace the word �Allah� with �God� and that shouldn�t be too difficult for a Christian to understand, though it might prove inordinately difficult to explain.  Consider, for example: �Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.� (Matt 26:36) Serv Brother Serv, Right on mark.   Best Regards BMZ Erm...sorry to break up the celebrations, chaps, but......Allah is not a multi-personal God.  He is not a father, he does not, and cannot have a son, nor is he a son who can have a father.  He is furthermore incapable of becoming a man, and therefore incapable of praying to God.  So.... where does that leave us.....

Now you are not gonna get serious on a facetious retort R U
May be you are new to the this august forum. You will learn the manners in due course of time.
You country are you in?

Couple of things before I go any further:

Have you ever listened to an absolute King speak?

King will use I and We interchangeably depending on the situation. His wish is a command to be carried out may not directly by him, same when Allah spoke such,

In Arabic God is disgusted with the situation and it is expression of his wrath which may be carried out in due time. Who is translating as prayer is plane sign of ignorance.

Edited by Sign*Reader

harrdnut wrote: What is the reason that Isa Son of Mariam was born thru a MIRACULOUS Virgin-birth but not prophet Mohammed?

Here is rule which the God of Abraham have used  to select his human servants (prophets) to deliver the message to their way ward folks .

I call it � Dump The Dad� or rather the sperm donor severance principle. When the surgeon sees a cancerous part he just cuts and tosses and or replaces with new part sometimes grown separately. Do you get the picture?

I am really surprised being born again should be evolutionary than devolutionary act and you should know all this cuz you are Born-Again Isa Al Massih follower.

Back to the birth details of the main deliverers of the ONE and only God's message.

Moses or Musa(as) He was  sent adrift in the river Nile by his family/father before Pharaoh's praetorians could discover and kill him in their campaign to eliminate the male children of Israelites.

And Moses gets to be raised by the Pharaoh's household and not his father's. Why cuz God wanted him to be raised in the master�s environment than to be brought up with a slaves mentality. He still complained to God of his weakness and asked for an assistant in Aaron and God provided him with other miracles to face off Pharaoh.

Jesus / Isa's (as) Mary(as)'s Dad wanted a son but God gave him a daughter. It was sign from God that the end of Prophesy in the Israelite line had been decided and one last shakeout God was to pull on the arrogant Jews even under the servitude of the Romans. And God didn�t find anybody fit to be Mary�s husband to bring messiah. He decided to eliminate the sexual process and create Jesus through parthenogenesis by sending the message to Mary through His archangel Gabriel. She will give birth to Messiah of the Jews who will have no traits of the contemporary Jews and no influence of another Jewish father in his up bringing and at the same time bamboozle the heck out of the smart-alecky Jews of her times. And the Messiah will be given the miracles to make his case to the people who will care to pay attention to message and not miss the last train.

If the man can do cloning why can�t Allah a better design change being the owner the patent?

harrdnut wrote: As a Born-Again Isa Al Massih follower, I think that the god of Islam should have made prophet Mohammed be born thru a MIRACULOUS birth also, and given him more SUPERNATURAL POWER than was given to prophet Mohammed !

The coming of Prophets God can be compared with a major surgery on a cancer ridden society that calls for a removal of the father�s role from the scene in order to make things easy for the man WHO WILL BE PROPHET.

You know that father is supposed to be a role model for son. In old pagan societies the father was a major hurdle to handle, remember Our Great patriarch prophet Abraham(as) had such tough time with his dad (Azar) when he started his mission that no body comes close. Remember him getting dumped into a pit of a huge bonfire as punishment for wrecking the idols, of course it turned into a little park for him to take a stroll (miracle)

And it is not part of the Islamic teaching to be rude to the parent.

Back to Muhammad (saw) birth, it is well known and documented historical fact in his biography that his birth happened against the greatest odds in the pagan society of Arabia which no less than a miracle in it�s own right.

His father Abdullah being the youngest and most handsome was also the marked to be sacrificed for the vow of his grand father for wishing having ten sons. His dad's life was spared in lieu of 100 camels� sacrifice which took a long and arduous steps to get to that point.

Then grandpa made arrangement to marry Abdullah with Amina a lady  from a great and honorable family of arabia . On the day of his wedding another woman who saw the blaze of prophetic light on Abdullah�s face invited him to marry her take that blessed seed.

She also offered him same gift 100 camels as was the expiation of his life. But he said he was with his father and can not act against his wishes.

He went on to marry Amina who conceived the apostle. Later on he saw the same woman and  asked her if she was still interested and she told him the light he had left him and she no longer had the need of him.

The mother of Muhammad(saw)used to say when she was pregnant � a voice said to her �you are pregnant with the Lord of the people and when he is born say I put him in the care of the One from the evil of every envious; then call him Muhammad(saw)�

As she was pregnant with him she saw a light come forth from her by which  she could see castles of  Syria!(miraculous prophesy that came true in Prophet's life time)

Shortly afterwards Abdullah the apostle�s father died without any apparent reason to die young while Aminah was still pregnant.

So the role the prophet�s father played was just a short lived  marriage and pass away without seeing his son much less influencing his  mission. 

So notice the a common thread the elimination of father's role in Musa(as), Issa(as)and Muhammad(saw)'s lives from the get go!!

harrdnut wrote: After all is not prophet Mohammed the SEAL of all prophets? (BTW what does the word SEAL mean in Islam)?

Don�t you know when a seal of approval is placed on a document you can�t make any alterations.

BTW You want to ask such big questions but you don't say  which country you live in ? I wonder !!

Finally it is no secret that who accomplished his mission successfully, so now you know the facts about birth circumstances.

Moses abandoned the  Israelites in the wilderness cuz of their slavish state.

Jesus was forces to take cover under great facade of crucification and disappear leaving say about a dozen followers (Last supper). After all the miraculous birth the God arranged for he left with no religious or political authority to name.

There is hardly any documented history about Jesus available and without Paul there would hardly be any Christianity much less  the born again stuff.

I wouldn't say anything about Muhammad(saw)

You can read Mike Hart's "The 100" and then say who gets the grade out of these three God's champions.

Edited by Sign*Reader