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Topic ClosedWHAT IS KUFR?????

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2008 at 6:42am

AGAPE-  unconditional love, love the sinner but hate the sin.  This does not mean that the sin does not go unpunished.

Ron - I really like this verse- I often worried about those not knowing Jesus and the Comandments.  All of man know right from wrong because it it writen on our hearts. 

Romans 2

14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2008 at 11:32am

Originally posted by martha martha wrote:

Hayfa, exactly right :-Becasue I love Allah, my creator, the devinie essence that gave life to all, I will love all that Allah created.

So you love creation because of the Creator; but then why do you love the Creator?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2008 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Originally posted by martha martha wrote:

Hayfa, exactly right :-Becasue I love Allah, my creator, the devinie essence that gave life to all, I will love all that Allah created.

So you love creation because of the Creator; but then why do you love the Creator?

Why wouldn't you love the Creator?

He gave us life, and sustenance, and the ability to think and create on our own. He gave us the emotion of love, the ability to feel and pass this feeling along to others.

If it were not for the Creator, you would not exist.

In Islam we believe that everything we have is from Allah. Every breath we take, every bite of food, every drink of water, everything. Everytime I eat ice cream I am grateful to Allah that He gave me life to be able to eat the ice cream, that He gave me taste buds to have the ability to taste the ice cream, that he created cows who give the cream, that He made man intelligent enough to figure out how to freeze the cream and add the ingredients to make it delicious, that He made those ingredients to begin with, etc....  It never ends.

�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2008 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Originally posted by martha martha wrote:

Hayfa, exactly right :-Becasue I love Allah, my creator, the devinie essence that gave life to all, I will love all that Allah created.

So you love creation because of the Creator; but then why do you love the Creator?

Why wouldn't you love the Creator?

He gave us life, and sustenance, and the ability to think and create on our own. He gave us the emotion of love, the ability to feel and pass this feeling along to others.

If it were not for the Creator, you would not exist.

So you love the Creator because of His creation; and you love His creation because of the Creator.  And the circularity of this doesn't bother you?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2008 at 6:26pm

Layle, this is what I can answer you:

If you go back to some of our postings, you would find that Seekhidayath has posted types of kufr. To sum it all, there are Major and Minor Kufr.

Major Kufr constitutes

1.  Apostasy and nullifies the good deeds;

2.  It condemns the one who commits it to eternal abode in fire.

Minor Kufr constitutes

1.  Neither constitutes apostacy or nullified good deeds but it diminishes them and the one committing it will be subjected to punishment.

2.  If the one doing the minor kufr enters jahannam, he will not remain there eternally.

 

Both doer of major kufr and minor kufr will enter Hellfire but the one committing the major kufr will remain therein. The reason behind why they will abide therein forever is the act of SHIRK they do that falls them to that category. Allah said in the Quran that the only sin He cannot forgive are those committing and believing in SHIRK and die committing and believing in it. Shirk nullifies all good deeds and Allah will not accept any of it as what He had said in the Quran

 

�Verily, Allah forgives not that partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with Allah in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin.� Quran 4:48

 

 �This is the Guidance of Allah with which He guides whomsoever He will of His slaves. But if they had joined in worship others with Allah, all that they used to do would have been of no benefit to them.� Quran 6:88

 

�And indeed it has been revealed to you (O Muhammad), as it was to those (Allah�s messengers) before you:�If you join others in worship with Allah, (then) surely (all) your deeds will be in vain, and you will certainly be among the losers.� Quran 39:65

 

There are a lot more ayah concerning those people that committing and believing in SHIRK and die doing it. Base on this ayah, do you think Allah will accept them? After doing injustices to Him? Do you think Allah will have mercy on them the same way that He has Mercy to those who believe in Him and His messengers but short fall in their deeds? Laylee, not all Muslim will go straight to Jannah, some will go to Hellfire and pay for the disobedience they have committed. But those Muslim will not abide therein forever like those that commit major shirk. In Islam we believe that we do good deeds to please Allah and to gain His mercy for only His mercy can avail us of Jannah. What is the use of doing good deeds if on the other hand we make injustice to Him and intensify His Wrath?

 

I can�t compare my belief to Allah in what you just put as an example and it�s not proper or befitting to compare the belief in Allah to some goods, Laylee. Believing in Allah can�t be compare to a can of food that some would eat and some would not. Believing in Allah is more than THAT. �You can eat food in can A or can B but whichever you take will have same effect on you�� If you put it like that, the meaning is, you can be a Christian or Hindu or Jew and you all go straight to Jannah due to your good deeds. No, that�s not how it is in Islam. There is only ONE WAY to Jannah and that is Islam and nothing more. You only have to choose the right one (ISLAM) for you to reach Jannah and your guide is the Quran and Sunnah.  Laylee, the key to Jannah is not our good deeds but His mercy. We can gain His mercy by pleasing Him (doing good deeds with sound belief) doing deeds that is acceptable to Allah and would please Him. By the way, Islam is not just a �religion� like how others believe it to be. Islam is a COMPLETE WAY OF LIFE, a way of life commanded by Allah through His Words that can be found in the Quran and His Messengers is the best model of what Allah wants us to follow. And those who surrender themselves completely to the Will of Allah is called Muslim.

The Quran has speaks at length of the evil deeds for which those who will abide in Hell forever deserve their never-ending fate. Allah the Almighty tells us that it will be said to those who disbelieve, when they are in the Fire, that Allah� hatred of them will be greater than their own hatred towards themselves because of their disbelief. He then explains that their eternal fate in hellfire is because of their kufr and shirk.

�Those who disbelieve will be addressed (at the time of entering into the Fire): "All�h's aversion was greater towards you (in the worldly life when you used to reject the Faith) than your aversion towards one another (now in the Fire of Hell, as you are now enemies to one another), when you were called to the Faith but you used to refuse. They will say: "Our Lord! You have made us to die twice (i.e. we were dead in the loins of our fathers and dead after our deaths in this world), and You have given us life twice (i.e. life when we were born and life when we are Resurrected)! Now we confess our sins, then is there any way to get out (of the Fire)? (It will be said): "This is because, when All�h Alone was invoked (in worship, etc.) you disbelieved, but when partners were joined to Him, you believed! So the judgement is only with All�h, the Most High, the Most Great!" Quran 40:10-12

Allah, the Almighty tells us that the keeper of hell will ask the kuffar, as they will be approaching hell:

�They will say: "Did there not come to you, your Messengers with (clear) evidences and signs? They will say: "Yes." They will reply: "Then call (as you like)! And the invocation of the disbelievers is nothing but in error!" Quran 40:50

Concerning to those who disbelieve in the Quran and associate partners to Allah;

�Thus We relate to you (O Muhammad) http://www.al-sunnah.com/call_to_islam/saws.gif some information of what happened before. And indeed We have given you from Us a Reminder (this Qur'�n). Whoever turns away from it (this Qur'�n i.e. does not believe in it, nor acts on its orders), verily, they will bear a heavy burden (of sins) on the Day of Resurrection,  They will abide in that (state in the Fire of Hell), and evil indeed will it be that load for them on the Day of Resurrection.� Quran 20:99-101

 

�But those who reject Our Ay�t (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and treat them with arrogance, they are the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire, they will abide therein forever.�Quran 7:36

 

�And the true promise (Day of Resurrection) shall draw near (of fulfillment). Then (when mankind is resurrected from their graves), you shall see the eyes of the disbelievers fixedly stare in horror. (They will say): "Woe to us! We were indeed heedless of this; nay, but we were Z�lim�n (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.)."  Certainly! You (disbelievers) and that which you are worshipping now besides All�h, are (but) fuel for Hell! (Surely), you will enter it.  Had these (idols, etc.) been �liha (gods), they would not have entered there (Hell), and all of them will abide therein. � Quran 21:97-99

�But those who disbelieve, (in the Oneness of All�h - Isl�mic Monotheism) for them will be the Fire of Hell. Neither it will have a complete killing effect on them so that they die, nor shall its torment be lightened for them. Thus do We requite every disbeliever!� Quran 35:36


�O you who believe! Be afraid of Allaah, and be with those who are true (in words and deeds)� [al-Tawbah 9:119]

O Allaah, show us the truth as truth and enable us to follow it; show us the false as false and enable us to avoid it. Guide us concerning disputed matters of truth by Your leave, for You guide Whomsoever You wish to the Straight Path. 

May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammd and upon his family and companions. 



And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2008 at 8:53pm

 

 T_L. Layalee is right. Islam means peace. If the people of other religions " Believe in their God, they pray to their God in their own way and they believe in the accountability of the last day and THEY DO GOOD DEEDS, They may have no fear nor will they grieve. [ Verse 2:62 ]

 The doing of good deeds, (befitting deeds is the right translation here), it includes the peacefulness that islam teaches in respect of toleration and accommodation. As long as those people do not torment or persecute (kill etc) any one for the reason of difference of beliefs, they may be of any religion. They will benefit. On the other hand, if there is a Muslim who is not peaceful, his deeds are not good, he has everything to fear.

 The examples you have given T_L are mostly about the polytheists (Mushrikeen). It is not our duty to kill them or to beat them to death if they do not follow Islam. They will be punished by Allah in hell.

 The important point is about the enemies of Truth, they are the Kaafir. Any person of any faith who is not the enemy of the islamic principles (of no compulsion) and does not fight to finish Islam, he is not a Kaafir.

 Every one who does not believe in Islam is not a Kaafir. Only the one who fights or opposes is a kaafir. It is wrong to translate the word Kaafir as a mere disbeliever. It is proper to translate the word Kaafir as the disbelieving enemy, or enemy disbeliever.

More later...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2008 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Originally posted by martha martha wrote:

Hayfa, exactly right :-Becasue I love Allah, my creator, the devinie essence that gave life to all, I will love all that Allah created.

So you love creation because of the Creator; but then why do you love the Creator?

Why wouldn't you love the Creator?

He gave us life, and sustenance, and the ability to think and create on our own. He gave us the emotion of love, the ability to feel and pass this feeling along to others.

If it were not for the Creator, you would not exist.

So you love the Creator because of His creation; and you love His creation because of the Creator.  And the circularity of this doesn't bother you?

It's the Circle of Love Ron Webb... Step into the Circle, all are welcome, all are welcome...

�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2008 at 10:02pm

"Major Kufr constitutes

<!--[if !supportLists]-->1.  <!--[endif]-->Apostasy and nullifies the good deeds;

<!--[if !supportLists]-->2.  <!--[endif]-->It condemns the one who commits it to eternal abode in fire.

Minor Kufr constitutes

<!--[if !supportLists]-->1.  <!--[endif]-->Neither constitutes apostacy or nullified good deeds but it diminishes them and the one committing it will be subjected to punishment.

<!--[if !supportLists]-->2.  <!--[endif]-->If the one doing the minor kufr enters jahannam, he will not remain there eternally."

AsAssalamu Alaikum:

I am just wondering who composed this list of minor and major Kufr and what daleel they have for this composition?

 

 

�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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