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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

LOL!!  I found a partial answer to my original questions on this thread -
 
 

 This is a fact described in the Quran that Jesus was Kalimah (a word or message or meaningful sentence) from God (given to Mary). It is also described in the Quran that Jesus was a spirit from God.

 

 So, in short, we Muslims believe that Jesus was:

 

 1. Kalimatullah (a word from Allah)

 2. Roohullah, (Spirit from Allah)

 3. Nabi Allah, (Prophet of Allah)

 4. Rasool Allah, (Messenger from Allah)

 5. Ayatullah, ( A sign from Allah) Ch. 19, verse 21

 6. Rehmatullah (Mercy from Allah) 19:21

 7. Abdullah (Servant of Allah) Ch. 19:30.

 8. Mubarak, (Blessed from Allah)

 9. In peace all the time,

 
Thanks minuteman
 
I have been saying for a long time but maybe not on this forum that Jesus was the Message!!   Am I stretching the word from Allah too far in Muslim eyes?
 
Do Muslims consider each of us a spirit from Allah?
 
A sign from Allah to what end?

 
 
Muslims believe that all of Allah's Messengers and Prophets are the same. If you had read the Quran, which I believe you wrote somewhere that you had read it three times, you would know that Allah states there is no difference between the Prophets and Messengers.
 
 Quit looking for something that just isn't there.
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Points: 1930 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2008 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Actually as the scribes copied the detering texts there was a special format they followed to make sure the copies were correct.  Check out this verse.  It shows that the copies were checked with the originals so they knew if the new were good copies of the old.
 
Jeremiah 8:

7 Even the stork in the sky knows her appointed seasons, and the dove, the swift and the thrush observe the time of their migration. But my people do not know the requirements of the LORD.

8 How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

9 The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have?

Have you been to the museum that holds the bones, leaves, etc. that the original verses were writen on? 

 
Then how do you explain the discrepancies in the New Testament?
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Points: 1930 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2008 at 4:46pm
"5:116 And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden."   (Al-Ma'idah)
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2008 at 4:51pm
Hi believer,
you wrote, "Actually as the scribes copied the detering texts there was a special format they followed to make sure the copies were correct.  Check out this verse.  It shows that the copies were checked with the originals so they knew if the new were good copies of the old"
 
But where is the Original?  to the contrary to your claim here is an example, a true example of how people translate/alter/or adopt things that fulfil their purpose.
I will quote a verse from Jewish Bible (translation form Chabad.org, and the same verse from Christian Bible. I could not believe how Chrisitian altered this to preach their doctrine.

Isaiah 9:6 (New King James Version)

      For unto us a Child is born,
      Unto us a Son is given;
      And the government will be upon His shoulder.
      And His name will be called
      Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
      Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
 
Now look at the Jewish Bible, the same verse appears one number back in the the same book (Isaiah9:5) but it is its contents that are very important and different in meaning then the Christian version.
 
"For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace."
 
This is a classical example of altering for fulfilling your own agenda.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 14 April 2008 at 4:53pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Servetus View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Shasta’sAunt Shasta�sAunt wrote:

Muslims believe that all of Allah's Messengers and Prophets are the same. If you [believer] had read the Quran, which I believe you wrote somewhere that you had read it three times, you would know that Allah states there is no difference between the Prophets and Messengers.

 

If you don�t mind my asking, and with the understanding in advance that I am not at all interested in perpetuating inter-religious controversies (though I do study the issues) and that I am not irreligious but, to coin a term, largely areligious (non-religious), with no particular doctrinal points of my own to try to prove, please explain how you reconcile your statement that �all messengers and prophets are the same,� with this:

 

�These Messengers: We favored some of them over others. God spoke directly to some of them and raised up some of them in rank. We gave Clear Signs to Jesus, son of Mary, and reinforced him with the Purest Spirit. (Qur'an, 2:253)�

 

Moreover, it has been a long time since I�ve read it, and I cannot immediately locate a copy, but isn�t it  said that, during Muhammad�s night journey to Jerusalem, he was given a place of (at least seeming) preeminence above Moses and the other prophets whom he met along the way?  The �ranks,� then, appear rather hierarchical and therefore at least at times unequal in nature.

 

Could you please clarify?  Thank you.

 

Serv



Edited by Servetus - 14 April 2008 at 5:41pm
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Shasta - All can be easily explained.  Are there ones that really bother you?  Start a new thread on those and we can work through them.  The main thing is that the full message is not changed. 

I don't know of any true Christians that every worshipped Mary.
 
"Muslims believe that all of Allah's Messengers and Prophets are the same" 
 
Except that Jesus' sides were never touched by satan.  Do you know why Mohammad said this?
 
Muslims believe that Mohammad was?:
1. Kalimatullah (a word from Allah)
 2. Roohullah, (Spirit from Allah)

 5. Ayatullah, ( A sign from Allah) 

 6. Rehmatullah (Mercy from Allah)

  8. Mubarak, (Blessed from Allah)

 9. In peace all the time,
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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honeto - Our ministers go through years of college learning all the languages of the Old and New Testament.  They translate the Bible on their own- interesting that all come up with the basic idea that God gave us a savior in Jesus Christ.
 
The Apostles believed Jesus was GOD.    Through the Apostles GOD has corrected His WORD.
 
Your Quran claims that Allah protects His Word, correct?


Edited by believer - 14 April 2008 at 6:56pm
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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minuteman View Drop Down
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Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

honeto - Our ministers go through years of college learning all the languages of the Old and New Testament.  They translate the Bible on their own- interesting that all come up with the basic idea that God gave us a savior in Jesus Christ.
 
The Apostles believed Jesus was GOD.    Through the Apostles GOD has corrected His WORD.
 
Your Quran claims that Allah protects His Word, correct?
 
  believer, I could not understand you. Your ministers go through much to study the bible. Our Muslim preachers also spend years in learning the religion (Quran).
 
 There is no doubt that Jesus was a saviour for the Jews i.e. the children of Israel. But they did not accept him. Rather they rejected him. The apostles never believed that Jesus was a God. Jesus had never preached that he was a God. Jesus sent his apostles to the jewish people to preach about his mission and in that mission he never told them to go out and preach about him being a God. I never read in the whole bible that Jesus told any one of his 12 disciples to preach about his Godhead.
 
 He later sent 70 preachers, with special instructions about where to go and where not to go and what to do and what not to do. But he never told them to go out preaching that Jesus was a God. Show me from the bible NT if Jesus ever told any of his preachers to preach the subject of him being a god incarnate. There is no such thing in the four gospels.
 
 This subject was very serious. If at all it was to be told to people then it could not be done in dubious way. Your sentence : The Apostles believed Jesus was GOD.    Through the Apostles GOD has corrected His WORD is a funny sentence, cannot be understood or believed. There was no news about the Godhead of Jesus until the enemy type disciple (Saul) came along. Until then, it was not known to any one that Jesus was a God.
 
 You please consider our arguments about Jesus being a God because Jesus never spent one whole day telling any one that he was God. Why?
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