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YHWH v. Allah
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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Points: 1930 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2008 at 12:25pm
"So are you saying that Allah is not the name of your God?" 
 
If by your God, you mean the One True God, of Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, and Mohammed, you are correct.
 
If you read the rest of the website you listed you will see that this is a movement started by a self-proclaimed fulfillment of Islamic prophesy. That he was sent to earth instead of the return of Jesus, which Muslims believe will occur before the Day of Jugement.
 
First, this is false teaching and not Islamic.
 
Second, all Arabs, even non-Muslims, know that the Arabic word Allah means God. Christian Arabs use the word Allah when they pray to God.
 
Third, I believe Servetus posted his Biblical reference above in direct response to God loves sinners, Allah hates sinners.  I am assuming by your response that being run through with a sword is a declaration of love.  Or, that when God(Jesus?) brings down retribution upon sinners it is somehow different than when Allah brings down retribution upon sinners.
 
 
 
 
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Doo-bop View Drop Down
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Points: 531 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doo-bop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2008 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

"So are you saying that Allah is not the name of your God?" 
 
If by your God, you mean the One True God, of Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, and Mohammed, you are correct.
 
If you read the rest of the website you listed you will see that this is a movement started by a self-proclaimed fulfillment of Islamic prophesy. That he was sent to earth instead of the return of Jesus, which Muslims believe will occur before the Day of Jugement.
 
First, this is false teaching and not Islamic.
 
Second, all Arabs, even non-Muslims, know that the Arabic word Allah means God. Christian Arabs use the word Allah when they pray to God.
 
Third, I believe Servetus posted his Biblical reference above in direct response to God loves sinners, Allah hates sinners.  I am assuming by your response that being run through with a sword is a declaration of love.  Or, that when God(Jesus?) brings down retribution upon sinners it is somehow different than when Allah brings down retribution upon sinners.
 
 
 
 
 
I am fully aware of the nature of the website I linked you to.  I pointed this out to you myself.  I was really asking you to comment on the reasons given on the page for asserting that Allah was the name of the God of the Quran.  If by simply designating it as false is your response, then so be it.
 
I am also aware that Arab Christians use the word Allah to designate the God of the Bible, just as Arab pagans used it to designate a pre-Islamic deity. 
 
 "I am assuming by your response that being run through with a sword is a declaration of love." ------This is a very strange assumption to make, and I cannot think why either yourself or Servetus should make it.  After all, God will bring every unforgiven sinner into judgment in hell.  That cannot be said either to be an act of love.  But it does not mean that God did not love the sinners in question before.  They are judged because they reject his love
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Points: 3984 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2008 at 3:35pm

Allow me to comment on a few of these things in a more philosophical fashion.....

 

1st point:

YHWH is God's name �forever'. (Exodus 3:13�15)

Allah is God's name. (The Quran)

This comparison is a misinterpretation (and misrepresentation of Quranic text) of God's infinitude. In Islam God exist infinite without cause and without end and consequently, his name thus exist infinitely. You don't need to find the exact wording of "God's name last forever" in th Qur'an to know God (and his name or whatever you call him) exist infinitely.
 

Evil is not from YHWH, but wilful rebellion against YHWH. YHWH is the author of good, not evil. (Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 92:15; 1 John 1:5)

Allah is the author of both good and evil. (Q91:5�9)

 
 
This is another misrepresentation of Quranic text. If evil exist independent of God then that would somehow prove God's impotency in actions that are independent of God. If God in fact encompasses the maximum capcity of "power" in essence then actions that exist in the physical plane do not escape God's ability nor do evil actions act independent of God. In order words, if eveil did not come from God but is independent of God then God is impotent in quality.
 
But what both verses mean is on the one had God in th bible does not willfully cause someone to do evil (which would violate individual freewill). God is the author of that which is spiritually good or essentially good such as life wealth, good food are subjective claims made by humans but God is essentially good thus which emanates from him is also essentially good. Whereas the Islamic perspective of God is more of the direct form of defining action. Both good and evil come from God in the sense of theircreation in the world. Good and evil are subjective claims that are known through individual experience which God allows us to experience to know their difference. What good are spiritual laws if God didn't create good and evil for us to distinguish from?
 

YHWH can make himself present with and in people and places: this is distinct from his omnipresence. (Exodus 33:14�15; Joel 2:27�29)

Allah is everywhere at once, but nowhere in particular: he indwells nothing. (Q2:109; Q4:125)

 
Perhaps Servetus can comment more on this Biblical perspective but to comment on the Islamic perspective to metamorph God into a particular thing would make God temporal or to inaccurately state that this or that particular object is God. God cannot be objectified or compounded into one substance. Although God is considered to be "everywhere" this is to substantiate the claim that God is omnipresent. We must be careful to not make God to be a particular less we face defining God in a pantheistic fashion.
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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Points: 1930 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2008 at 4:32pm
"------This is a very strange assumption to make, and I cannot think why either yourself or Servetus should make it.  After all, God will bring every unforgiven sinner into judgment in hell.  That cannot be said either to be an act of love.  But it does not mean that God did not love the sinners in question before.  They are judged because they reject his love."
 
"YHWH loves sinners and reaches out to his enemies in love. (Exodus 34:5�7; 1 John 4:19)"
 
I found it ironic. God has Biblically destroyed whole nations and generations. So He is reaching out with an iron fist?  Where is the love?
 
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Brother Israfil:
 
The meaning of the verses listed on the chart as quoted from the Quran do not actually correspond with the actual verses in the Holy Quran. It is all a fabrication of the author.  
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
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Points: 1930 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2008 at 4:49pm
"I am fully aware of the nature of the website I linked you to.  I pointed this out to you myself.  I was really asking you to comment on the reasons given on the page for asserting that Allah was the name of the God of the Quran.  If by simply designating it as false is your response, then so be it."
 
There is nothing in the Quran that states the name of God is Allah. The Quran does state that God has 99 Names and I posted a link to these names.  I have no response as to why this group is asserting otherwise, I don't have a clue...  I would suggest at this point that you actually read the Quran to see which of us is giving you the correct information.   
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
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Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

"------This is a very strange assumption to make, and I cannot think why either yourself or Servetus should make it.  After all, God will bring every unforgiven sinner into judgment in hell.  That cannot be said either to be an act of love.  But it does not mean that God did not love the sinners in question before.  They are judged because they reject his love."
 
"YHWH loves sinners and reaches out to his enemies in love. (Exodus 34:5�7; 1 John 4:19)"
 
I found it ironic. God has Biblically destroyed whole nations and generations. So He is reaching out with an iron fist?  Where is the love?
 
 
There is nothing ironic about it.  Unless you are saying that God should not judge those who reject him when they are loved by him.  And we have enough stories of killing, and descriptions of hell,  from Islamic texts to know that the God of the Quran will judge those who will not submit to him.
I think the point the author of this faulty table is trying to make is that while God loves the world, including sinners, the God of the Quran does not love sinners.  Or does he?


Edited by Doo-bop - 22 April 2008 at 2:32am
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Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

"I am fully aware of the nature of the website I linked you to.  I pointed this out to you myself.  I was really asking you to comment on the reasons given on the page for asserting that Allah was the name of the God of the Quran.  If by simply designating it as false is your response, then so be it."
 
There is nothing in the Quran that states the name of God is Allah. The Quran does state that God has 99 Names and I posted a link to these names.  I have no response as to why this group is asserting otherwise, I don't have a clue...  I would suggest at this point that you actually read the Quran to see which of us is giving you the correct information.   
 
Actually, in my very first post, I expressed doubt that the Quran said that Allah was God's name
 
Well, anyway, perhaps somone else could comment on this:-
 
 
 
Interestingly, the link gives a grammatical reason as to why Allah is a proper noun -
 
"Contrary to popular belief, the word Allah is NOT a contraction of al-ilah (al meaning 'the', and ilah meaning 'god').

Had it been so, then the expression ya Allah ('O Allah!') would have been ungrammatical, because according to the Arabic language when you address someone by the vocative form ya followed by a title, the al ('the') must be dropped from the title. For example, you cannot say ya ar-rabb but must say ya rabb (for 'O Lord'). So if the word Allah was al-ilah ('the God'), we would not be able to say: ya Allah, which we do.

Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon (which is based on classical Arabic dictionaries), says under the word Allah, while citing many linguistical authorities:

"Allah ... is a proper name applied to the Being Who exists necessarily, by Himself, comprising all the attributes of perfection, a proper name denoting the true god ... the al being inseparable from it, not derived..."

Allah is thus a proper name, not derived from anything, and the Al is inseparable from it. The word al-ilah (the god) is a different word."

 
 


Edited by peacemaker - 24 April 2008 at 10:39am
"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" - John the Baptizer (John 1:29)
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