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Delta View Drop Down
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Points: 114 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2008 at 11:14am
Originally posted by BMZ BMZ wrote:

 
You hate Islam and I hate Bin Laden. His is a political battle which has nothing to do with Islam. In terms of comparison, I would compare him with Martin Luther, whose teachings led to the creation of the monster Hitler.


Salam,

Take this article from  Brother Muslims to muslims, he is not apostate neither offensive

http://www.submission.org/quran/warsh.html

Originally posted by BMZ BMZ wrote:


The Crusaders slaughtered the Jews in the name of their Lord and justified killing of the Jews as having 'holy mercy' upon them by packing them off to heaven. LOL Bush is another holy freak. Let us leave politics out here.
 
BMZ


ok, read this book :

(historian ) Will Durant - The Story of Civilization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Durant

In his The Story of Civilization,

describes the Muslim invasion of India as "probably the bloodiest story in history."

The North Western region of India is called the Hindu Kush ("the slaughter of the Hindu") as a reminder of the vast number of Hindu slaves who died while being marched across the Afghan Mountains to the Muslim slave markets in Central Asia. The Buddhists were also targeted for destruction. In AD 1193 Muhammad Khilji burned to the ground their famous library and the Buddhist stronghold of Bihar.

By the way

I was a little upset because your rules destroyed this forum, man must wait 2 days to discover that the moderator was a little confused about Ali Sina

whatsoever, I feel sorrow for muslims, and like them very much

peace
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2008 at 2:49pm
Delta,
you say, "I feel sorrow for muslims, and like them very much". I don't know how true that is comparing to what you write.
You say you hate Islam, but love Muslims. But here you are mentioning the acts of some Muslims, even if these accounts are true, that is due to actions of people (and you say you love them) not Islam (you say you hate). Just like Christians are to be good and value life, yet they did not practice it neither in the Ibarian peninsula after taking it back from Mulsims or in the Americas with the locals, nor during the previous or current colonization of Islamic world.
So let us keep the politics out.
And I am still waiting your response to my previous post!
Hasan
 
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Delta View Drop Down
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Points: 114 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Delta,
you say, "I feel sorrow for muslims, and like them very much". I don't know how true that is comparing to what you write.


My anger was due to this forum rules, and I overreacted, nothing to do with religion

They destroyed this forum, how can be discussed something in here ?

I never saw a forum acting like this


========
You say you hate Islam, but love Muslims. But here you are mentioning the acts of some Muslims, even if these accounts are true, that is due to actions of people (and you say you love them) not Islam (you say you hate).
========

Correct. The history is something that we must dig in it deeply, find order in chaos

Was the moderator who first accused the Christians about crusades, perhaps He also thought about inquisition

But, as you said : it is complex, actions that must be fully understood

There is much to say about that, that is true and you can confirm it

There is so much ashame in the Islam Past as the Christians Past

Was the moderator who launched the first stone, not me


==========
Just like Christians are to be good and value life, yet they did not practice it neither in the Ibarian peninsula after taking it back from Mulsims or in the Americas with the locals, nor during the previous or current colonization of Islamic world.
==========

Don't say anything else about history, ok ?

As I said, there is much to say


==========
So let us keep the politics out.
And I am still waiting your response to my previous post!
Hasan
==========

Agree

Is difficult to discuss in here

for God sake, why this ?
 
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Delta View Drop Down
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Points: 114 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:



First this is no place for those who hate any one's faith or belief.


In order to understand my hate for some religion ( NOT PEOPLE )

You have to start afresh studding all doctrines and faiths

Keep out what is human - crusades, slaughters, killings, everything what is history

God is not history, God is present, God Is

==========
If you hate what some of us believe.  I would suggest you stay away  from those hate websites,
=======

I don't agree in that, if that sites are related to faith and doctrines rather than history it must be read

If it quotes hadiths, quran verses, and it gives a critical outside view of our religion, then we must read and try to find answers

Being God perfect, also His religion must be perfect

========
This is a place to learn and promote knowledge and understanding and love with some rules.
=========

Knowledge can't be a blind and a brainwashed one, apply this to any religion in the world

=======
There is no compulsion on your part or on ours, each and everyone of us is free to believe whatever he/she choose.
========

Agree


======== 
Let me ask you this what is your understanding of these verses from your Holy Bible, these words are sacred to you as you believe they are from God. Now can you tell me what you read, and what you interpret and what you practice from these, as you claim to be a Roman Catholic??

Here are the quotes from Exodus Chapter 20
4 'You shall not make yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything in heaven above or on earth beneath or in the waters under the earth.

5 'You shall not bow down to them or serve them. For I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God and I punish a parent's fault in the children, the grandchildren, and the great-grandchildren among those who hate me;

=============

Old is Old, and prior to Jesus I don't give much of authority, because the plan of God was not yet fulfilled




Edited by Delta - 12 May 2008 at 4:31pm
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believer View Drop Down
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2008 at 6:47pm
tnc I don't think you understood my statement-
 
I understand these verses as: 
The pagans who convert to Islam
or
have a treaty with Muslims
or
repent 
or
ask for your protection will not be slain. 
 
Only those that resist will be killed.  Is that correct?


Edited by believer - 12 May 2008 at 6:52pm
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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truthnowcome View Drop Down
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Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

tnc I don't think you understood my statement-
 
I understand these verses as: 
The pagans who convert to Islam
or
have a treaty with Muslims
or
repent 
or
ask for your protection will not be slain. 
 
Only those that resist will be killed.  Is that correct?
 

 My friend, those verses we are discussing there has to do with war, Muslims against the Pagans. There were a truce agreed between them in verse 009.004 YUSUFALI: (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

 But when the truce ended the are still at war verse 009.005 YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

 When you are at war what you do to the enemy, watch them or try to kill them? Take in consideration modern day war; it�s the same war with the Pagans and Muslims only it is modern day Pagans (Halloween it there their trade mark); it�s just that they barrow the bible to move the masses in disguise.

 Now, when the occupier (modern day Pagans) in Iraq sees the resistances (Muslims) what you think they will do, watch them or kill them? They (Pagans Crusaders) are using Drones in the sky looking for them and when they saw them even if women and children are there they still drop the bomb on them killing every one.

  Its war my friend! But the problem is you didn�t recognize this verse 009.006 YUSUFALI: If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

 Now, let�s just stop for a moment and go back when the crusaders begin to invade Iraq. Do you think when they capture a Muslim in the midst of the war the will leave their position and �escort him to a secure place�? Wake up my friend!!!

Numbers 31

3And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian.

7And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

9And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

 10And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

21And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD commanded Mose

Joshua 6

 2And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour

3And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days.

 20So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.

 21And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

 

Jesus (S) to the effect, do not look at the speck in some one eye but first remove the plank that in your eye.

truthnowcome
LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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believer View Drop Down
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tnc-  Yes I know it is in war.  You are completely misunderstanding my point!! 
 
I was agreeing with BMZ that not all the europeans would be slaughtered.-"By simply pointing out just 9:5 as a verse on it's own and showing it as a Commandment to Muslims to fight all others in the world, is being plain dishonest. LOL"
 
"If 9:5 were an order to kill, all the Europeans, [I made this bold] who came and later colonised Muslim lands by deceit, would have been killed the day they stepped in. LOL"
 
Yes, Numbers and Joshua is history of what GOD commanded to keep His chosen people free form horrible negative influence.
 
LOL!!  relax tnc!!
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2008 at 6:29pm
Delta,
I am glad to see you composed, thank God. Welcome, may God help us all.
In response to my quotes from the O/T, you wrote:
"Old is Old, and prior to Jesus I don't give much of authority, because the plan of God was not yet fulfilled " 
May I ask, if that view is personal? because I don't know of any who associate themselves to the Roman Catholic church and yet discount the entire O/T.
I also find it quite contrary to your interest in proving evidance of events through history, yet discounting an important source of history, for many if not for me.
Let me ask you this also, why do you hate the belief that says: submit to the Will of God, the One who gave you life, and the ability to see, hear, feel, think and so on?
Becaue that's all I do as a Muslim, submit with my whole heart and whole self, to none other than God.
Peace,
Hasan
 
 



Edited by honeto - 13 May 2008 at 6:38pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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