Muslim women badly treated.

Bi simillahir rhmanir raheem

I deleeted your post becouse of your insults to other people not becouse of your point of view.

Your argument doesnt hold water if you are acusing me of deleeting your posts simply becouse i dont agree with them, look up past posts there are more contravertial posts than yours yet they are still there.

Sandra, if you are worried about honor killings as many of us are, why don't you contact the government of Jordan and any other government that isn't fully prosecuting for murder. What is your point here? To convince all of us that our religon is bad? I say to you again that women all over the world are victims of violence. Some because of culture or religon, some because of alcholol and drugs ect. Why are you targeting Muslims? Here in America a woman is most likely to be murdered by her husband or boyfriend. 1 in 4 women is abused sometime in her life. So does that say that American culture encourages wife murder and beating, no it doesn't. Obviously something is wrong here in America, in Jordan, in China, in India and so on. If you talk to any Muslim Imam or scholar, they will say honor killings are wrong. You are just choosing to target us and vent your anger. There are plenty of Muslim women in Europe and other western countries to complain about opression and what is going on inside thier homelands. We don't need prejudice people to do it for us. We muslim sisters and brothers are trying to stand up for each other on our own!!!

Sandra,

 

So far you have done nothing on this forum but be degrading to anyone that has not simply bowed in agreement to anything that comes out of your mouth.  Many people have agreed with parts of what you say (i.e., that honor killings do happen and they are horrid); however, that is not good enough for you.  You say that you are open-mined; however, if someone doesn�t agree with you 100%, you accuse them of being close- minded, ignorant and uneducated.  This is what you said about Aisha, �aisha your just a uneducated muslim that us westerners would not even help you if you were on fire.�  And why did you make that response?  Because she said something mean or inappropriate to you?  No, the only thing she did was to agree with an article that was posted about a Muslim woman and how she feels about her faith and in so writing that article she spoke out against a materialistic lifestyle.  Are you saying that for saying that, Aisha deserves to die, to be burnt to death?????????  If this is truly the way you feel, and we can assume so since it came from your own post, then what makes you better than those in Jordan who do �honor kills�?  Is it because you would merely stand back and watch as she burns to death that you would not be guilty of the same type of horrendous crime?  I don�t know about your country but in mine, if a person stands back and watches another person die without offering some kind of help, they are just as guilty of murdering that person as if they have done it with their own hands.

 

Sandra, how many Muslim women (and yes, we are Muslim women, not Islamic women), have you personally spoken with?  You keep refusing to answer this as well as other direct questions.   Is it 5, 50, 500, 5000?  I�m not talking about how many you have read about or been told about, but rather, how many you have personally spoken with.  A nice rough figure would suffice.  There are roughly 450,000 Muslims living in Australia with an overall population in your country of roughly 19 million people so I would assume that you have not spoken with more than 450,000 of them.  If I wanted to get a true story on current life in Australia, what percentage of the Australian population would I need to speak with?  Can I simply read a book?  If so, can I read simply any book I choose to read on Australia?  Did you know that there are roughly 2 billion Muslims in the world and that they live in every single country in this world?  Did you know that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world?  And, did you know that less that 25% of all Muslims are actually Arab?  So, how many of them did you say you have spoken with?  Where they all from Jordan?  Or were they from other countries as well?  If so, which countries?  And did they all say that �honor killings� are taking place in their countries of origin?  And how many of these Muslim women have left their faith, Islam? 

 

I think the real heart of the issue for you is that you don�t like anyone that doesn�t choose your lifestyle.  You, yourself, said in an earlier post that �Religion means nothing to me, all it means is hatred.�  In saying this, it appears that you have already made up your mind about Islam.  It doesn�t matter what we have pointed out to you.  Or what the Qur�an actually says.  You say that you have read it twice already but are unable to give us one single ayat (verse) that supposes your position that Islam condones honor kills.  On the other hand, we have given you plenty of ayats (verses) that prove just the opposite.  But since religion means nothing to you, so what, right? 

 

You said that you have read the Qur�an twice, but you ask me why women cover themselves (by the way, this is called hijabb).  If you had read the Qur�an twice, you would known why we wear hijabb.  It plainly states in the Qur�an why we do so.  I�m a new Muslim and have only read it once and I know why they wear it.  Did you know that in Turkey, the government has banned Muslim women from wearing hijabb and the Muslim women are fighting back?  Don�t you think it is horrible for the Turkish government to refuse to let these women wear hijabb?  In doing so, they are oppressing them.  They have taken away these women�s right to choose to live a life of their own choice.  You might want to ask why the Turkish government is doing this.  Do you think it�s for their own good?  Because men are oppressing them?  No, it�s because Turkey wants to be a part of the New European Union and so they are trying to show the world that they are �modern.�  So, Sandra, if you think modernism doesn�t cause oppression, then take another look.  Take a really close look this time. 

 

There is no one on this site who believes honor killings or any other type of violence is anything other than evil and unjust.  Yet you cannot even give us credit for that much.  I can give you news reports of men in western cultures that have killed their wives for adulteress behaviors�these are not called honor kills, but rather, crimes of passion; however, they are in no true sense categorically different than honor killings.  I know for a fact that in some western cultures, if a man catches his wife in the act of adultery and he kills her (and even the man), he is considered to be temporarily insane and will not be convicted of a crime.  How is this different than what is happening in Jordan?  If, as you say, Islam is responsible for these killings in Jordan, then who is responsible for these same types of killings in western cultures?  Christianity?  Judaism?  Hinduism?  How about in cultures where there is no religion or the government has a strict separation between church and state?  Then who is to blame for them?  Who�s to blame when it happens in Australia?  And don�t tell me crimes of passion don�t happen in your culture.

 

I think we should be very careful when we make claims to be helping people.  As can be seen by the state of the world today, �helping others� can simply be a justification for relieve them of one form of oppression by replacing it with another type of oppression.  This reminds me of something that a past US President said when asked why he put a dictator into political office in a certain Central America country.  He said, �He may be a dictator, but he�s my damned dictator.�  In other words, most people don�t like it when someone acts in ways they don�t approve of; however, if they do that same act, it�s justifiable.  They always say, �this is different��HOW???? 

 

PAZ,

Khadija

Khadija1021 wrote: Sandra,   So far you have done nothing on this forum but be degrading to anyone that has not simply bowed in agreement to anything that comes out of your mouth.  Many people have agreed with parts of what you say (i.e., that honor killings do happen and they are horrid); however, that is not good enough for you.  You say that you are open-mined; however, if someone doesn�t agree with you 100%, you accuse them of being close- minded, ignorant and uneducated.  This is what you said about Aisha, �aisha your just a uneducated muslim that us westerners would not even help you if you were on fire.�  And why did you make that response?  Because she said something mean or inappropriate to you?  No, the only thing she did was to agree with an article that was posted about a Muslim woman and how she feels about her faith and in so writing that article she spoke out against a materialistic lifestyle.  Are you saying that for saying that, Aisha deserves to die, to be burnt to death?????????  If this is truly the way you feel, and we can assume so since it came from your own post, then what makes you better than those in Jordan who do �honor kills�?  Is it because you would merely stand back and watch as she burns to death that you would not be guilty of the same type of horrendous crime?  I don�t know about your country but in mine, if a person stands back and watches another person die without offering some kind of help, they are just as guilty of murdering that person as if they have done it with their own hands. Sandra, how many Muslim women (and yes, we are Muslim women, not Islamic women), have you personally spoken with?  You keep refusing to answer this as well as other direct questions.   Is it 5, 50, 500, 5000?  I�m not talking about how many you have read about or been told about, but rather, how many you have personally spoken with.  A nice rough figure would suffice.  There are roughly 450,000 Muslims living in Australia with an overall population in your country of roughly 19 million people so I would assume that you have not spoken with more than 450,000 of them.  If I wanted to get a true story on current life in Australia, what percentage of the Australian population would I need to speak with?  Can I simply read a book?  If so, can I read simply any book I choose to read on Australia?  Did you know that there are roughly 2 billion Muslims in the world and that they live in every single country in this world?  Did you know that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world?  And, did you know that less that 25% of all Muslims are actually Arab?  So, how many of them did you say you have spoken with?  Where they all from Jordan?  Or were they from other countries as well?  If so, which countries?  And did they all say that �honor killings� are taking place in their countries of origin?  And how many of these Muslim women have left their faith, Islam?  I think the real heart of the issue for you is that you don�t like anyone that doesn�t choose your lifestyle.  You, yourself, said in an earlier post that �Religion means nothing to me, all it means is hatred.�  In saying this, it appears that you have already made up your mind about Islam.  It doesn�t matter what we have pointed out to you.  Or what the Qur�an actually says.  You say that you have read it twice already but are unable to give us one single ayat (verse) that supposes your position that Islam condones honor kills.  On the other hand, we have given you plenty of ayats (verses) that prove just the opposite.  But since religion means nothing to you, so what, right?  You said that you have read the Qur�an twice, but you ask me why women cover themselves (by the way, this is called hijabb).  If you had read the Qur�an twice, you would known why we wear hijabb.  It plainly states in the Qur�an why we do so.  I�m a new Muslim and have only read it once and I know why they wear it.  Did you know that in Turkey, the government has banned Muslim women from wearing hijabb and the Muslim women are fighting back?  Don�t you think it is horrible for the Turkish government to refuse to let these women wear hijabb?  In doing so, they are oppressing them.  They have taken away these women�s right to choose to live a life of their own choice.  You might want to ask why the Turkish government is doing this.  Do you think it�s for their own good?  Because men are oppressing them?  No, it�s because Turkey wants to be a part of the New European Union and so they are trying to show the world that they are �modern.�  So, Sandra, if you think modernism doesn�t cause oppression, then take another look.  Take a really close look this time.  There is no one on this site who believes honor killings or any other type of violence is anything other than evil and unjust.  Yet you cannot even give us credit for that much.  I can give you news reports of men in western cultures that have killed their wives for adulteress behaviors�these are not called honor kills, but rather, crimes of passion; however, they are in no true sense categorically different than honor killings.  I know for a fact that in some western cultures, if a man catches his wife in the act of adultery and he kills her (and even the man), he is considered to be temporarily insane and will not be convicted of a crime.  How is this different than what is happening in Jordan?  If, as you say, Islam is responsible for these killings in Jordan, then who is responsible for these same types of killings in western cultures?  Christianity?  Judaism?  Hinduism?  How about in cultures where there is no religion or the government has a strict separation between church and state?  Then who is to blame for them?  Who�s to blame when it happens in Australia?  And don�t tell me crimes of passion don�t happen in your culture. I think we should be very careful when we make claims to be helping people.  As can be seen by the state of the world today, �helping others� can simply be a justification for relieve them of one form of oppression by replacing it with another type of oppression.  This reminds me of something that a past US President said when asked why he put a dictator into political office in a certain Central America country.  He said, �He may be a dictator, but he�s my damned dictator.�  In other words, most people don�t like it when someone acts in ways they don�t approve of; however, if they do that same act, it�s justifiable.  They always say, �this is different��HOW????  PAZ, Khadija

See yet again you only read what you wish to read, if you look at the begiinning i was gentle to aisha, look at some of the first forums, when she became nasty and telling me mind you TO GO LICK MY DOGS FEET what do you think anyone is going to do?? bow to her feet, i dont think so, so dont accuse me of anything i will stand up for my rights in the real world and in a forum, if she is so islamic how dare she say these words to any human this is why then i only attacted her in return.  Read first all the information not just what you wish to read and then say what you have just saidto me.  I infact was very polite to her, and she was very nasty to say this to any human, typical uneducated women, im a very respected women in my country so i not need anything from you, i simply have succeeded in a comunity to help islamic women coming to us for help, why do you think they come to us for help? we dont have christians coming to us for help, we dont have buddhist coming to us for help, we dont have jews coming to us for help, we have ISLAMIC WOMEN because it is knowing the islamic tradition from many years before and still today in islamic countries women are forbidden having free of speach.  To answer your queston crimes of passion happen in all over the world BUT ITS NOT LEGAL LIKE MOST ISLAMIC COUNTRIES MY FRIEND THATS THE DIFFERENCE.