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Muslim Woman Pleads Guilty
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Angel View Drop Down
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Points: 6641 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2008 at 10:29pm
"I'm not surprised as the penalty of leaving Islam is death. Care to elaborate?"
 
Mystical, that is not what Shasta's Aunt talked about nor is it about the topic, you have misunderstood her.
 
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

 
This subject has been broached here numerous times before. There is nothing in Islam that adjucates death for apostates. You can find the previous threads if you would like to read the posts. Even if Islam did call for such deaths, they would not be considered honor killings.
 
Yes a few threads are around about apostacy, but I know for sure that the 4 schools condone it.
 
That's all I'm saying here as it is not the topic or issue Smile


Edited by Angel - 05 June 2008 at 10:30pm
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Angel View Drop Down
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I think the woman was very badly jealous. Usually jealously of some woman (and men) make them to commit murder.
Nearly all women have insecurities and jealously that make them do negative things and said, few of them commit murder.
Sometimes the statement if if i can't have you them no one will.
 
It's all sad. but if the woman is pleasing guilty maybe she is aware she was in the wrong, one that cost her her husband and her life if she spends time in prison.
 
Maybe some anger and hurt from her son never healed, i don't think losing a child you recover completely, - maybe have played something.
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Mystical View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Angel Angel wrote:

"I'm not surprised as the penalty of leaving Islam is death. Care to elaborate?"
 
Mystical, that is not what Shasta's Aunt talked about nor is it about the topic, you have misunderstood her.
 
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

 
This subject has been broached here numerous times before. There is nothing in Islam that adjucates death for apostates. You can find the previous threads if you would like to read the posts. Even if Islam did call for such deaths, they would not be considered honor killings.
 
Yes a few threads are around about apostacy, but I know for sure that the 4 schools condone it.
 
That's all I'm saying here as it is not the topic or issue Smile
 
I'm cool with that. My intention was not to introduce another topic. I was responding to a comment by Sharsta'sAunt. She infered that this woman killing her husband was honor killing by stating that many men, surprisingly were victims of honor killings. Then blames it on cultural beliefs denying the religious input. In my opinion honor killings are barbaric and senseless and shows a complete lack of trust in God. It is not realistic to claim it is cultural if it is taught in the Quran. 
 
Angel you say 4 schools condone it, pls clarify. Are you saying the 4 schools condone death as the penalty for apostasy in Islam?
 
However, I got your point about staying on topic Smile, appreciate the gentle reminder
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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Mystical Mystical wrote:

Originally posted by Angel Angel wrote:

"I'm not surprised as the penalty of leaving Islam is death. Care to elaborate?"
 
Mystical, that is not what Shasta's Aunt talked about nor is it about the topic, you have misunderstood her.
 
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

 
This subject has been broached here numerous times before. There is nothing in Islam that adjucates death for apostates. You can find the previous threads if you would like to read the posts. Even if Islam did call for such deaths, they would not be considered honor killings.
 
Yes a few threads are around about apostacy, but I know for sure that the 4 schools condone it.
 
That's all I'm saying here as it is not the topic or issue Smile
 
I'm cool with that. My intention was not to introduce another topic. I was responding to a comment by Sharsta'sAunt. She infered that this woman killing her husband was honor killing by stating that many men, surprisingly were victims of honor killings. Then blames it on cultural beliefs denying the religious input. In my opinion honor killings are barbaric and senseless and shows a complete lack of trust in God. It is not realistic to claim it is cultural if it is taught in the Quran. 
 
Angel you say 4 schools condone it, pls clarify. Are you saying the 4 schools condone death as the penalty for apostasy in Islam?
 
However, I got your point about staying on topic Smile, appreciate the gentle reminder
 
No, I did not infer that this was an honor killing in any way. I merely responded to your statement:
"Mystical says "GOOD FOR HER!!" Am I condoning her killing her husband?...of course not but I can understand it 'cause put in the same situation what woman wouldnt want to KILL her disrespectful husband? Now that she is old and grey and no doubt he's middle aged wanting a younger woman she is discarded to the side without any consideration for the 25yrs of faithful service she has rendered to her husband. You betcha that can drive a woman  temporarily insane. May Allah judge her mercifully.
 
Muslim men have killed their daughters/cousins/wives (honor killings) for much less and gotten away with it."
 
To which I responded:
"She was neither old nor grey. I saw the photos of her when the story was first published.
 
I can understand her agony at not wanting another woman to benefit from her dead child's blood money, but she could have easily divorced him. If she had stated polygamy as the reason for divorce she propbably could have gotten a large portion of the money and she'd be sitting pretty right now instead of in jail.
 
Islam does not allow honor killings and the practice is common among many cultures and religions, including Christians in Arab and Asian cultures. It is cultural, not religious.  A surprising number of men are the victims of honor killings also. They usually just don't make the headlines."
 
How you can get that I am inferring that this is an honor killing from what I posted I have no idea. I also think that you need to post the Ayats of The Quran that order honor killings.
 
This website has stories of men and women who have been the victims of honor killing.
 
 
From Amnesty International, who actually track and study Honor Killings:
"Though such crimes are widely known to be under-reported, the U.N. Population Fund estimates that more than 5,000 women are killed for reasons of honor every year. These murders take place in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Lebanon, Egypt, the West Bank, and Gaza, as well as Jordan, according to published reports. Equality Now, an international women's human rights group, reports that honor killings also occur in countries as diverse as Bangladesh, Brazil, Ecuador, India, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Morocco, Sweden, Turkey, Uganda, and the United Kingdom.

The tradition underlying honor killing defines a woman's chastity as her family's property. It �comes from our ancient tribal days, from the Hammurabi and Assyrian tribes of 1200 B.C.,� Khouri explains. (In Pakistan, it is said to be a Baloch and Pashtun tribal custom). �This practice predates Islam and Christianity. Christian women are being killed this way, too.� "   (Amnesty International)

I suppose these Christians who are killing their wives and daughters are doing so because it's taught in the Bible?  Maybe after you show me the passages in The Quran that teach honor killing you can show me the passages in The Bible that teach honor killings. Then you can show me the tenets in the Hindu religion that orders honor killings.


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 06 June 2008 at 6:27am
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Angel View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Mystical Mystical wrote:

It is not realistic to claim it is cultural if it is taught in the Quran.
 
I believe its not in the quran. Its culture and tribal. The issue of honour killings is a well know topic and it is also known its not religious, it is mixed in as if it looks like a religious thing but not. It happens to various people. Some people in the ME are quite cultural and end up mixing religion with it.
 
 
Quote Angel you say 4 schools condone it, pls clarify. Are you saying the 4 schools condone death as the penalty for apostasy in Islam?
 
If you do a search of the forum I'm sure you will find it Smile
 
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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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Mystical :
 
Honour-Killings are NO WHERE in the Qur'an OR the Hadith. Its a cultural practise, which is concentrated in a select few countries. . . and there too BOTH muslims and non-muslims practise it. Unlike what the media portrays, it is NOT prevalent in the entire muslim world. I repeat, in a select few countries like Jordan etc.
 
Secondly, yes Men are ALSO a target of Honour-Killings. And Shasta's Aunt is right, they dont make it to the headlines bcz it isnt a sensational story. . .non-muslims are more likely to jump out of thier seats when they hear that a young girl was killed by "dis-honoured" father rather than a man. What happens is that the perpetrators kill BOTH the man & woman involved in the illicit affair. Not just the girl.
 
Ofcourse, just bcz the man is also killed doesnt make that right! I was merely stating a fact. Its an evil, un-islamic practise.
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Israfil View Drop Down
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A male should also have no problem "understanding her situation" you just need a little compassion and have the ability to place yourself her shoes.
 
I have compassion for those who suffer from mental defects or other faulty cognitive behaviors as well as those who commit mistakes out of anger. HOWEVER! her actions were premeditated. She bought a gun. She knew when to kill him (e.g. while sleep). She fired two shots. It takes deliberation to pull a trigger.
 
People make fatal mistakes what is so hard to understand? The law is one thin but having having the ability to empathise with her is a personal judgement which obviously you don't.
 
Her husband made a decision which women sympathizing with this soon-to-be-jailed woman, abhorrent. I sympathize with her on the basis on what she felt as far as the actions of her husband.
 
I am not justifying what she did...it is wrong to kill... but their are degrees of culpability in my view. I can understand  that this is some-thing anyone can fall victim of and that if I was in her situation I can't say with utmost cetainty that I too wouldnt react that way. I believe she has a good case to rightfully plead not guilty due to temporary insanity. She doesnt deserve to rot in jail. What if she was your mother, your sister, or even your grandmother...would you feel any differently?...Or simply dismiss her as a murderer?
 
Her only shot is to plead temporary insanity. However she is not a victim. She is a suspect. She is not a victim just because her husband is seeing another woman and she becomes hurt from that. She killed him.
 
 
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Hayfa View Drop Down
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It is like many other cases  of someone feeling "dissed." We all have choices to make.
 
 
The only aspect that I could see is that she was angry. Angry at him for some reaon. Part of it maybe he, after years, is ready to move on with life. He could fivorce her and just -remarry, but he decided not to that.
 
The woman could have chosen to divorce him and sue for the money.
 
This story only made the news cause he wanted a co-wife. Sensational. He could have divorced her or cheated on her and well.. would not have been much of a news story, even if she had shot him. Its the co-wife deal.
 
 
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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