| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Mystical 
Groupie
Joined: 31 May 2008
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 54
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Posted: 07 June 2008 at 1:14pm |
 Israfil wrote:
A male should also have no problem "understanding her situation" you just need a little compassion and have the ability to place yourself her shoes.
I have compassion for those who suffer from mental defects or other faulty cognitive behaviors as well as those who commit mistakes out of anger. HOWEVER! her actions were premeditated. She bought a gun. She knew when to kill him (e.g. while sleep). She fired two shots. It takes deliberation to pull a trigger.
People make fatal mistakes what is so hard to understand? The law is one thin but having having the ability to empathise with her is a personal judgement which obviously you don't.
Her husband made a decision which women sympathizing with this soon-to-be-jailed woman, abhorrent. I sympathize with her on the basis on what she felt as far as the actions of her husband.
I am not justifying what she did...it is wrong to kill... but their are degrees of culpability in my view. I can understand that this is some-thing anyone can fall victim of and that if I was in her situation I can't say with utmost cetainty that I too wouldnt react that way. I believe she has a good case to rightfully plead not guilty due to temporary insanity. She doesnt deserve to rot in jail. What if she was your mother, your sister, or even your grandmother...would you feel any differently?...Or simply dismiss her as a murderer?
Her only shot is to plead temporary insanity. However she is not a victim. She is a suspect. She is not a victim just because her husband is seeing another woman and she becomes hurt from that. She killed him.
|
What if she was your mother, sister or grandmother would you still judge her a "suspect" and wish her to rot in jail?
So in your opinion killing is killing and all killing is wrong? What if a husband finds his wife in bed with another man and kills her in a fit of jealousy and anger would you say this type of killing is justified? Or should he wait and tell others so they can all all have the pleasure of stoning her to death?
|
 |
Israfil
Senior Member
Joined: 08 September 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 3984
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 June 2008 at 2:55pm |
What if she was your mother, sister or grandmother would you still judge her a "suspect" and wish her to rot in jail? \
This is a subjective question. Of course if this were one of my family members I'd feel upset because of my bias towards my relatives because, this is a natural feeling.
|
|
Salams_wife
Senior Member
Joined: 31 July 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 296
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 June 2008 at 4:36pm |
Did anyone ever see the video for the song "Independence Day" by Martina McBride? What that woman did was worse, but you could see her husband drove her to it. She had other options, but she chose not to take them. Truly sad to chose death over life, but some do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYENO6r5vVo&feature=related
|
|
Angel
Senior Member
Joined: 03 July 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 6641
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 June 2008 at 9:20pm |
Mystical wrote:
What if a husband finds his wife in bed with another man and kills her in a fit of jealousy and anger would you say this type of killing is justified? |
It is not justified.
|
 ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
|
|
Mystical
Groupie
Joined: 31 May 2008
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 54
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 June 2008 at 9:38pm |
Shasta'sAunt wrote:
Mystical wrote:
Angel wrote:
"I'm not surprised as the penalty of leaving Islam is death. Care to elaborate?"
Mystical, that is not what Shasta's Aunt talked about nor is it about the topic, you have misunderstood her.
Shasta'sAunt wrote:
This subject has been broached here numerous times before. There is nothing in Islam that adjucates death for apostates. You can find the previous threads if you would like to read the posts. Even if Islam did call for such deaths, they would not be considered honor killings.
|
Yes a few threads are around about apostacy, but I know for sure that the 4 schools condone it.
That's all I'm saying here as it is not the topic or issue  |
I'm cool with that. My intention was not to introduce another topic. I was responding to a comment by Sharsta'sAunt. She infered that this woman killing her husband was honor killing by stating that many men, surprisingly were victims of honor killings. Then blames it on cultural beliefs denying the religious input. In my opinion honor killings are barbaric and senseless and shows a complete lack of trust in God. It is not realistic to claim it is cultural if it is taught in the Quran.
Angel you say 4 schools condone it, pls clarify. Are you saying the 4 schools condone death as the penalty for apostasy in Islam?
However, I got your point about staying on topic , appreciate the gentle reminder |
No, I did not infer that this was an honor killing in any way. I merely responded to your statement:
"Mystical says "GOOD FOR HER!!" Am I condoning her killing her husband?...of course not but I can understand it 'cause put in the same situation what woman wouldnt want to KILL her disrespectful husband? Now that she is old and grey and no doubt he's middle aged wanting a younger woman she is discarded to the side without any consideration for the 25yrs of faithful service she has rendered to her husband. You betcha that can drive a woman temporarily insane. May Allah judge her mercifully.
Muslim men have killed their daughters/cousins/wives (honor killings) for much less and gotten away with it."
To which I responded:
"She was neither old nor grey. I saw the photos of her when the story was first published.
I can understand her agony at not wanting another woman to benefit from her dead child's blood money, but she could have easily divorced him. If she had stated polygamy as the reason for divorce she propbably could have gotten a large portion of the money and she'd be sitting pretty right now instead of in jail.
Islam does not allow honor killings and the practice is common among many cultures and religions, including Christians in Arab and Asian cultures. It is cultural, not religious. A surprising number of men are the victims of honor killings also. They usually just don't make the headlines."
How you can get that I am inferring that this is an honor killing from what I posted I have no idea. I also think that you need to post the Ayats of The Quran that order honor killings. |
oops...my mistake...SORRY!!
Shasta'sAunt wrote:
This website has stories of men and women who have been the victims of honor killing.
From Amnesty International, who actually track and study Honor Killings:
"Though such crimes are widely known to be under-reported, the U.N. Population Fund estimates that more than 5,000 women are killed for reasons of honor every year. These murders take place in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Lebanon, Egypt, the West Bank, and Gaza, as well as Jordan, according to published reports. Equality Now, an international women's human rights group, reports that honor killings also occur in countries as diverse as Bangladesh, Brazil, Ecuador, India, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Morocco, Sweden, Turkey, Uganda, and the United Kingdom
The tradition underlying honor killing defines a woman's chastity as her family's property. It �comes from our ancient tribal days, from the Hammurabi and Assyrian tribes of 1200 B.C.,� Khouri explains. (In Pakistan, it is said to be a Baloch and Pashtun tribal custom). �This practice predates Islam and Christianity. Christian women are being killed this way, too.� " (Amnesty International)
Shasta'sAunt wrote:
I suppose these Christians who are killing their wives and daughters are doing so because it's taught in the Bible? Maybe after you show me the passages in The Quran that teach honor killing you can show me the passages in The Bible that teach honor killings. Then you can show me the tenets in the Hindu religion that orders honor killings. |
|
It is a fact that the majority who practice honor killing is predominantly from and in Muslim countries. Your own quote above attests to this. You can't get away from this fact. As Islam does not speak out AGAINST this many in their own Muslim country do so with impunity. It is not isolated cases it is a worldwide phenomenon.
BUT this is off topic remember..
Edited by Mystical - 07 June 2008 at 9:47pm
|
|
Israfil
Senior Member
Joined: 08 September 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 3984
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 June 2008 at 9:48pm |
First off honor killing is not the topic as you Mystikal rightfully said, this is getting off-topic.
Second, I didn't address what Angel pointed out already. If a wife commits infidelity and her husband happens to walk in, and happens to be watching this episode, he is not justified in killing his wife even if he is a witness to her transgression. . I wouldn't even say he is justified in kicking the crap out of his wife and the guy but many men do it and we arrest them for it even if in the beginning they were "victims" of marital transgression. A clear fact here: I sympathize with pain not with murder two distinct differences here. Infidelity or someone's spouse spending their dead child's money on another person are no means to take life.
Edited by Israfil - 07 June 2008 at 10:04pm
|
|
Mystical
Groupie
Joined: 31 May 2008
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 54
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 June 2008 at 9:57pm |
Angel wrote:
Mystical wrote:
What if a husband finds his wife in bed with another man and kills her in a fit of jealousy and anger would you say this type of killing is justified? |
It is not justified.
|
This question was put to Israfil which HE chose to ignore and I believe he chose to ignore it because he would justify it. But because it's a woman he chooses to condemn her outright as if it was a simple case of murder.
I still stand by what I said. The woman who killed her husband deserves compassion and understanding as a man would need understanding and compassion if he was in the same situation. However this is not a situation a man will find himself in as Muslim women can marry only one.
|
|
Israfil
Senior Member
Joined: 08 September 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 3984
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 June 2008 at 10:01pm |
Mystical wrote:
Angel wrote:
Mystical wrote:
What if a husband finds his wife in bed with another man and kills her in a fit of jealousy and anger would you say this type of killing is justified? |
It is not justified.
|
This question was put to Israfil which HE chose to ignore and I believe he chose to ignore it because he would justify it. But because it's a woman he chooses to condemn her outright as if it was a simple case of murder.
I still stand by what I said. The woman who killed her husband deserves compassion and understanding as a man would need understanding and compassion if he was in the same situation. However this is not a situation a man will find himself in as Muslim women can marry only one. |
Um, Mystikal did you see what I wrote?
I said: If a wife commits infidelity and her husband happens to walk in, and happens to be watching this episode, he is not justified in killing his wife even if he is a witness to her transgression.
Edited by Israfil - 07 June 2008 at 10:04pm
|
|
Tweet
