Did he betray me?

 Indeed Brother, I have quoted Dr. Zakir here more than once, and I believe he is a knowledgable man. However, though I find myself agreeing to almost everything, there are certain things I do not agree with . . . one of them being the 'debates' :p though they are interesting, I don't believe they achieve thier purpose (tho his intentions may be noble). (Except perhaps a few 'debates') I accept Yusuf Estes opinion on 'debates' rather than Dr. Naiks.

 

 

A women in Islam, if she wishes to work she can work - There is no text in the Qur�an or the authentic Hadith which prevents or makes it prohibited for a woman to do any work, as long as it is not unlawful, as long as it is within the preview of the Islamic Shariah, as long as she maintains her Islamic dress code

I agree wholeheartedly with this. And that is all I am trying to say. . .  which means that one cannot say that working for women is wrong. If Brother, some sisters do not follow Islamic principles in thier daily lives, thier action is held accountable with Allah alone , and we are no one to label working outside the home as 'wrong' , simply because some sisters are not aware/care about Islamic injunctions.

 

But natural, she cannot take up jobs, which exhibit her beauty and body - Like for example, modeling and film acting, and such kind of jobs.    A true Islamic society requires women to take up profession such as doctors.

 

Brother, let me use this to elaborate another point of mine. (Now this is a personal opinion of Dr. Zakir . . . because Islam does not say that any certain profession is better for women or not)

 

Can you seriously suggest that a sister can today become a qualified, medical doctor all the while depending on her male-mahrams? I am perfectly aware of the 'recommendation' of male-mahrams accompanying muslim women, and I believe Allah had a maslihat for that, and I am in whole-hearted agreement with it. However, I also believe that is a 'strong reccomendation' rather than a forbiddance. I do not believe that a woman who is unaccompanied by a non-mahram male is sinning, niether is it haraam or forbidden. Islam gives us levels of permissabilty of actions. 

 

This especially meant a lot at a time when travel was unsafe, usually on foot or camels, which could easily be intercepted by burglars or mischief-makers. Travel was long, often for months, and females are given to discomfort at certain times, thus travelling with a male companion makes things easier, especially when it came to dealing with rowdy men, or non-muslims - at that time, women as a general rule were not respected. . . anywhere. Even travelling as a group, women were not safe. Because the absence of a male guardian meant anyone could mistreat the women since they were vulnerable.

Plus the muslim males of the time had more chivalry . . . they thought of thier guardianship as a responsibility. I am afraid the males today look upon it more as a burden, and rather than go through the trouble of accompanying thier women, would rather have them stay at home. I have seen brothers stomp around and refuse to get thier sisters things from the shop down the street. Many a times my friennds could not come to school events, bcz it was the driver's day off and the brother/father did not want to take the trouble to drive thier daughters bcz it would waste thier weekend. . . and simply asked them not to go.

 

Women have to go to university, can you expect a male guadian accompanying them eversingle day, twice a day? What about AT university, isnt the sister alone at university now? Or should she have a male mahram there too? Most universities are co-ed, since it takes double the resources to make one exclusive for females, and many countries dont offer them, thus she comes into contact with non-mahram males. Sometimes the timings are not fixed, are the men really, practically at the beck and call of thier women, so as to drop everything they are doing and go pick up a sister. What about higher studies? If a sister gets a scholarship in another city or abroad, can you expect the males of the house to accompany them? What about when they are in the professional field now. . . Can you expect the male-mahram to be present during the Dr.Sister's daily rounds? Wht abt night duties? She is coming into contact with non-mahram males during this time as well.

 

Even if you take the 'islamically' preferred job i.e. Medical Profession. . . a woman cannot become a qualified doctor if she is to rely soley on her mahrams to depend on. Perhaps 1 out of 100 men would be dedicated enough to do that.

 

In today's day and age, women can safely commute/travel Islamically and securely without the need of a male-mahram. And when there is no hurdle to a woman's security . . . there is no harm. Because that was one of the main reasons/maslihat Allah reccomended a mahram. A car is safer and more secure than any travel item. She is even hidden from prying eyes, and can fulfill even the strictest forms of hijab. She doesnt even have to converse/deal with strange men. At any urgency/emergency . . . one has to dial 911 or anyother number (any mahram in this situation would do the same, call authorities. . .not take out a sword and fight.) She doesnt even have to perform physical labour such as put up tents on rest-stops(like in the olden days) or change the tyres. . .she can simply call ppl for that.

 

As for conversing with unrelated males. . . Brother that is a neccessaty you cannot escape. Even if a woman is at home 24hrs she has to converse with males at sometime, whether it be the Plumber, Milkman, servant, driver, gardner etc. The only way she can 100% prevent conversations with the opp sex is if all the above positions are filled with women. . .  and that again brings us to the subject of the neccessaity of women in the workforce.

 

From an Islamic point of view, Niether Allah nor His Prophet forbade conversing with the opp-sex. WHICH IS WHY Allah sent doen conversational ettiqeute. Bcz if it had been forbidden, Allah would not have sent down, 'how-to-talk-to-men' instructions. Men and Women are asked to lower thier gaze WHEN a brazen thought comes to the mind. One does not have to avoid eye-contact when there is a completely harmless/stricyly professional conversation is going on. Many scholars agree on that. And some women have a tendency to be very flirtatious or soft-spoken, and male colleagues may mis-interpret the signals. HENCE Allah asks the women to talk in a no-nonsense tone of voice. . .so even the st**idest of men do not mistake thier intentions/signals. And honestly, if a woman does all that, no man will ever look upon her more than a professional colleague.

 

She is  also allowed to work in factories and small scale industries in which, which has been designed exclusively for the ladies.

 

This I believe Brother, is again a personal preference or opinion. Not many factories are woman-only. And even if they hav mixed employees, you will notice a natural tendencies of muslims to group with thier own gender. I have seen clips of Factories workers on TV (of Pakistan, where nobody forbids the mixing of men/women) yet the women will be naturally seated on one side, and men on the other. . . busy in thier work. In an assembly-line, believe me Brother. . .workers dont have time to scratch thier noses, let alone gaze at each other.

And I repeat, Allah would not have sent down instructions regarding dealing with the opp-sex, had Allah not known about the inevitable neccassity of dealing with the opp-sex.

 

 

She can work in places which have got separate sections- gents and ladies, because Islam does not agree with intermingling of the sex

 

I believe Brother, this again. . .is more of a personal opinion/cultural reflection. I agree, Islam does not encourage intermingling BECAUSE of natural sexual tendencies.  But Islam does not forbid it either. Let us take the example Dr. Zakir gave himself. Even if the medical field was the only profession, Female Doctors cannot avoid intermingling with men.

Islam ONLY has a problem when sexuality comes in between unrelated/nonmahram members of the opp sex.

 

Not every muslim sister has an able Father or Brother. And even if they do, not every father, brother or husband is willing to take up the extra burden of dealing with another business's issues. . especially when he has his own responsibilities. I believe only a certain minority of men are that God-Fearing and willing to help out. Thus you are excluding a huge chunk of the female population.

 

My Dad works 9-6. And I have no brothers. Am I to say good-bye to my skills/education/talents and not apply them in the workplace, just because I do not have any Male-Mahrams apart from my Dad? (Btw, I do not work, so wanted to add that I am not defending working muslim women just because I work. It is a matter of principles)

 

 

And the best example I can give you is of Bibi Khatija (may Allah be pleased with her) who was the wife of our beloved Prophet (may peace be upon him) She was one of the most successful business women of her times and she did the transaction through her husband, Prophet Muhammed may (May peace be upon him)

 

Edited by Chrysalis - 19 June 2008 at 3:38am

 

The above Ayat is not about inheritance as an inheritance is given to you, not something you earn AND this Ayat following it addresses inheritance specifically:

 

 

 

 

 

 

As'Salamu Alaikum ,

 

Sisters, i now, understand this wisom behind the hadith that when a woman sins, even her husband, father , son or brother, whoever in there life ,  are also dragged into hell. Your posts did flash over the negligence of brothers or husbands towards there families. And also of muslim men towards society. It is equally important that they be educated over this issue. To bring up a peaceful and good society, there is need for co-operation  and equal contribution from both sides. Both are equally responsible.

 

"Please show me one Ayat in The Quran that states a woman cannot work, travel, think, be intelligent..."

 

Sister, i never said, nor did any member say that woman cannot work, or think or be intelligent. Kindly, clear that misconception. Especially, in my posts i did say that she can come out when it is necessary. I never said , she cannot think or be intelligent. That would not rear the wheels of  a man's life.

 

Yes, regarding travelling alone - here is a point of discussion. Limits set by shariah is 50 KM. Here again let me remind you that the definition of "travel distance" varies. Most of them agree to be 50 KM. If she has to travel beyond that limit them she surely has to travel along a mahram.

 

Here are few hadiths

 

 It was narrated that Ibn 'Abbaas (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: �No woman should travel except with a mahram, and no man should enter upon a woman unless there is a mahram with her.�  A man said: �O Messenger of Allaah, I want to go out with such and such an army, and my wife wants to go for Hajj.� He said: �Go for Hajj with her.� Narrated by al-Bukhaari (1763) and Muslim (1341).

 

 It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: �It is not permissible for a woman who believes in Allaah and the Last Day to travel for the distance of one day and one night except with her mahram.� Narrated by al-Bukhaari (1038) and Muslim (133). According to al-Bukhaari (1139) and Muslim (827), from the hadeeth of Abu Sa�eed: �The distance of two days.�

 

Sister these were the hadiths that clearly forbids women to travel alone. Can you give me the link wherein hajj is permitted without a mahram. I did not read all the posts. If you have posted it, let me know.

 

Sister Chrysallis said :

 

This especially meant a lot at a time when travel was unsafe, usually on foot or camels, which could easily be intercepted by burglars or mischief-makers. Travel was long, often for months, and females are given to discomfort at certain times, thus travelling with a male companion makes things easier, especially when it came to dealing with rowdy men, or non-muslims - at that time, women as a general rule were not respected. . . anywhere.

 

Sister, hadiths are general rules and are applicable for all muslims and for all times. Even these days we habe burglars and mischeif makers. Infact they are far improvised in there techniques. However the journey may be safer, the happiness of  obeying the commands of Islam are far more rewarding. Don't look wisdom behind the hadith, as a muslim lets try to obey.

 

Shasta's aunt says

 

 guess my point here is that until the Ummah as a whole and Muslims as individuals are ready to step up and live Islam, then we have no business condemning others because WE are not doing what we are supposed to do either. And I'm not talking about salaat and fasting. I'm talking about taking care of women and orphans and treating each other as equals and truly believing that the best of us are the ones closest to Allah, and no longer refusing to be friends or in-laws with other Muslims because of their race or ethnicity, or just feeding a hungry homeless person instead of looking away, or protecting innocent animals from harm.... or any of the millions of small and not so small things we should be doing every single day but just do not do. Once we start doing all of these things along with our salaat and fasting then perhaps we can advise others on how to be good Muslims. But I suspect by then we would all be so busy actually being good Muslims and good human beings we wouldn't have the time or the energy to harass others.

 

Sister you highlighted a very important issue that needs attention.  Certainly, we need to start up with our own selves, at the same time, if the strength of faith permits us we are to educate people around us too.  May Allah swt help us to improve in other areas too which badly needs to be corrected. My final words - Muslimahs when out for jobs when necessity arises , follow the Islamic rulings and be mindful of Allah swt always.

 

May Allah swt guide all of us, esp the brothers in Islam, May they be conscious of there responsibility towards there sisters and towards the society too.Ameen