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ihasan

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Joined: 17 August 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3

Posted: 18 August 2005 at 9:25am

Mauricio: Below are brief of answers for yr questions in sequence:

Shiites & Sunni: Two sects in Islam, each has many groups. Shia means 'partisan' or 'sectarian'. Complete term is 'Shian-e-Ali' means partisan of Ali. It came into being on the question of succession on the death of the Prophet of Islam. Abu Bakr, Omar, Othman and Ali were the first four successors of the State and the community chosen by the Muslim community. Ali (cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet) and the members of his family considered the first three successessors illegitimate for the headship and Ali was considered the first spiritual and temporal head of the community. Although the headship after Ali passed to Mua'wiah, the followers of Ali followed the sons and successors of Ali as their spiritual heads and were called Shian-e-Ali or Shia. Alawi, Zaidi, Fatimi, Ismaili, and many other are split from this group of Shia. They are largely populated in Iran, Iraq, India, Bengladesh, some middle eastern and African countries. They are only 20% of the whole Muslim population.

2) Does Islam believe in Angels? Yes. as explained by others.

3) Does Islam believe in Hell or the Devil? Yes, as explained by others.

4) What are the Five Pillars: Belief in the Lordship of God; Prayers; Zakat (charity); Fasting in the month of Ramadhan; and Pilgrimage of the House of Kaba in Makkah.

5) Story of Makkah: Will explain later.

6) People of other religion living in Islamic countries: Yes; will explain later.

7) Muslims as Agnostics or Atheists: Yes, will explain later

8) Spirits or Ghosts: Yes, will explain later.

Hope the above will somehow give answers to yr questions. Let me have, if you have any more questions.

Thanks.

salam_

Starter

Joined: 17 July 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1

Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:54am

Jazz,

I don't believe you are nitpicking.
I just think you need to be true to yourself and approach this with an open mind. Not with intension of trying to find a fault, although i fear not if you do for it is impossible to find a fault in this religion. Go home and read though books and honestly try to understand.

Anyhow, i'm going to try to answer as best as possible.

Why would there be a need to commit cruel, vicious atrocities to anyone who "contends"..........so, I wonder what punishment does Shayten get?.............it should be heaps, yes?......but I don't see any punishments for Shayten to be found in Quran, that come anywhere near the level that is commanded against "unbelievers".

We know the Shaytan is doomed in eternal hellfire. But he is not human, and is something completely different. We should worry about ourselves and our lives not wondering what kind of punishment he gets.

One reason being is that we HAVE SIGNS.... and have had them since the time of the first Prophets... God only knows it's been thousands and thousands of years. And yet we had the Torah, the Bible, and the holy Qu'ran. How, after all these signs and Proof all around us of God's existence and the wonders he created, do we dare deny his Existence.

I can go into ALOT more detail on that but i will be back because i'm about to leave work.

In terms of:

Do you mean faith in God or faith in what Mohammed claimed about God?
What is the difference between one who has faith in God alone and one who has faith in God AND what Mohammed claimed?
There are millions of people all over the planet who have faith in God but don't believe in Mohammed's claims........so what is wrong with their faith?

In the Bible itself, Jesus (pbuh) preaches of a Prophet that will come after him named ahmed. He asked the people to follow him once he comes.

And they do not...

but think about what you say in reverse. And replace it with ANY Prophet

"There are millions of people all over the planet who have faith in God but don't believe in Jesus........so what is wrong with their faith?"

God said in the Qu'ran that we should believe in ALL of the Prophets and the Angels.

So if we, as muslims, believed in Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and did not believe in Jesus, then we would be umong the unbelivers too.

I'M LEAVING NOW.... i'll be back later on today if not tomorrow...

salam.

Edited by icforumadmin - 17 July 2008 at 1:13pm

minuteman

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 25 March 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1642

Posted: 18 July 2008 at 3:11am

Is this thread still alive? I was surprised about the accuracy with which Deus (post of 17 July 2005) replied to questioner. And also others friends have advised Jazz in good manner, I need not mention those points. In fact everything is mentioned for Jazz, e.g. to read the few verses before and few verses after to get to the point please.

I learnt something special from the post of Deus (I may mention it later). Well things have been explained to Jazz but the arguments (Questions) do not seem to be solved. I know the reason. It is due to being over simple (and friendly) in translating the word Kafir.

Kafir is not a simple disbeliever. he/she is a hostile enemy type disbeliever. He niether believes nor lets any one believe and he gets ready to stop the spread of the message of Peace i.e Islam. He goes to fight Islam. Please bear that meaning of the word Kafir in mind and then translate any verse of the Quran. Things will be very clear at once.

I have to close this post now. But I will now prepare another which will have the original verses mentioned in these posts to prove my point.

So for my reply to Jazz, please note the verses which you intend to understand. See the original (Arabic) word in that verse if there is the word Kafir. If it is there then know that the order to fight is against an utter enemy of Islam. There is no order to fight and kill any peaceful person of any faith.

I hope it settles the matter.

minuteman

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 25 March 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1642

Posted: 18 July 2008 at 3:24am

What I learnt from the post of Deus was the translation of the word Aulia as " allies ". That was very good of M. Asad, the famous translator of Quran. It makes matter clear. Do not make allies of the Jews and the christians (It was a war time for Muslims. War was being imposed upon the newly weakling state of Madinah).

The meaning "allies: is correct because the word in Arabic is Aulia, which is plural of Wali.The meaning of Wali in not a friend only. It has the meaning of supporter or caretaker or guardian. The meaning 'Guardian' is very clear as we use the word Wali as a guardian during NIkah (Marriage).

So the word Aulia being the plural of Wali will also have a wide ranging meaning including allies, supporters and guardians. The meaning "Friend" is not a good meaning and never a proper meaning at all.

Therefore the verse ...... means "O believers, do not take the Jews and christians as your allies (or supporters). Some of them are the allies of the others....."

And there is no harm in that meaning. The verse does not say that believers should be the enemies of the Jews and the christians. Please see the verses.

minuteman

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 25 March 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1642

Posted: 18 July 2008 at 3:43am

(02:85)

Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? But what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life? And on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.(s. 2, v. 85)

This verse is addressing the Jews, not he Muslims, even though the contents apply to Muslims too. The verses of chapter 2, verse 83 to 86 should be read altogether to get to the meaning of verse 2:85.

minuteman

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 25 March 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1642

Posted: 18 July 2008 at 3:51am

How does one explain this, from Quran?

[5:51] "O you who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians for friends; they are friends to each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people"

Does this mean to say that a "believer" who takes a Jew or Christian as a friend is a Jew or a Christian?

No, not necessary unless there is war being imposed by the Jews or the christians. The matter has been explained very well previuosly that teh Correct translation of the verse 5:51 is as follows:

[5:51] "O you who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians for allies (or guardians); they are allies (and guardians) of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for an alliy (or guardian) then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people"

minuteman

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 25 March 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1642

Posted: 24 July 2008 at 12:46am

That seems to end most of the questions. NO body has reported back anything for a few days now. Anyhow, there was a question about contending or disbelieving in Muhammad while he/she was believing in GOD or Allah. It is necessary to believe in Muhammad too along with Allah. There is no harm. Because the message is coming through Muhammad. Otherwise many people may be teaching and preaching about God.

Islam does not disturb them. Quran is a certificate for the truth of all prophets. The other faiths do not support or sanctify any faith except themselves. But Islam tells us that all Messengers had brought the same message from God and that a messenger was sent to every nation.

Islam is the Universal religion based on nature and justice. The name of Muhammad is a part of our Kalimah i.e. "There is no God except Allah. Muhammad is a Messenger of Allah". In this way the name of Muhammad is permanently attached with the name of Allah. The name of Muhammad cannot be forgotten or separated from the the name of Allah, the Creator of all things. (More to follow) mm

Edited by minuteman - 24 July 2008 at 12:48am

salam

Starter

Joined: 23 July 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5

Posted: 24 July 2008 at 3:02am

Assala Alaikom

Just to Add this for "Mauricio"

ALAWI, is not a religion, but the decendent of the prophet Mohammad "ASWS" the real word is "ALAWI'INE" it's tribe name

The Alawites are a sect of Shi'ite Islam prominent in Syria. Alawī is not to be confused with Alevi, a different religious sect based in Turkey, although they share the same etymology.

The Alawites take their name from ˤAlī ibn Abī Ṭālib, cousin and son-in-law of Muhammad "ASWS" also the 4^th and last "Rightly Guided Caliph" of Islam. Historically, the Alawites have been called Nusayrīs (Arabic: نصيريون), Nasiriyya, and Ansariyya.

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ihasan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 17 August 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3	Posted: 18 August 2005 at 9:25am
	Mauricio: Below are brief of answers for yr questions in sequence: Shiites & Sunni: Two sects in Islam, each has many groups. Shia means 'partisan' or 'sectarian'. Complete term is 'Shian-e-Ali' means partisan of Ali. It came into being on the question of succession on the death of the Prophet of Islam. Abu Bakr, Omar, Othman and Ali were the first four successors of the State and the community chosen by the Muslim community. Ali (cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet) and the members of his family considered the first three successessors illegitimate for the headship and Ali was considered the first spiritual and temporal head of the community. Although the headship after Ali passed to Mua'wiah, the followers of Ali followed the sons and successors of Ali as their spiritual heads and were called Shian-e-Ali or Shia. Alawi, Zaidi, Fatimi, Ismaili, and many other are split from this group of Shia. They are largely populated in Iran, Iraq, India, Bengladesh, some middle eastern and African countries. They are only 20% of the whole Muslim population. 2) Does Islam believe in Angels? Yes. as explained by others. 3) Does Islam believe in Hell or the Devil? Yes, as explained by others. 4) What are the Five Pillars: Belief in the Lordship of God; Prayers; Zakat (charity); Fasting in the month of Ramadhan; and Pilgrimage of the House of Kaba in Makkah. 5) Story of Makkah: Will explain later. 6) People of other religion living in Islamic countries: Yes; will explain later. 7) Muslims as Agnostics or Atheists: Yes, will explain later 8) Spirits or Ghosts: Yes, will explain later. Hope the above will somehow give answers to yr questions. Let me have, if you have any more questions. Thanks.

salam_ Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 17 July 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1	Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:54am
	Jazz, I don't believe you are nitpicking. I just think you need to be true to yourself and approach this with an open mind. Not with intension of trying to find a fault, although i fear not if you do for it is impossible to find a fault in this religion. Go home and read though books and honestly try to understand. Anyhow, i'm going to try to answer as best as possible. Why would there be a need to commit cruel, vicious atrocities to anyone who "contends"..........so, I wonder what punishment does Shayten get?.............it should be heaps, yes?......but I don't see any punishments for Shayten to be found in Quran, that come anywhere near the level that is commanded against "unbelievers". We know the Shaytan is doomed in eternal hellfire. But he is not human, and is something completely different. We should worry about ourselves and our lives not wondering what kind of punishment he gets. One reason being is that we HAVE SIGNS.... and have had them since the time of the first Prophets... God only knows it's been thousands and thousands of years. And yet we had the Torah, the Bible, and the holy Qu'ran. How, after all these signs and Proof all around us of God's existence and the wonders he created, do we dare deny his Existence. I can go into ALOT more detail on that but i will be back because i'm about to leave work. In terms of: Do you mean faith in God or faith in what Mohammed claimed about God? What is the difference between one who has faith in God alone and one who has faith in God AND what Mohammed claimed? There are millions of people all over the planet who have faith in God but don't believe in Mohammed's claims........so what is wrong with their faith? In the Bible itself, Jesus (pbuh) preaches of a Prophet that will come after him named ahmed. He asked the people to follow him once he comes. And they do not... but think about what you say in reverse. And replace it with ANY Prophet "There are millions of people all over the planet who have faith in God but don't believe in Jesus........so what is wrong with their faith?" God said in the Qu'ran that we should believe in ALL of the Prophets and the Angels. So if we, as muslims, believed in Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and did not believe in Jesus, then we would be umong the unbelivers too. I'M LEAVING NOW.... i'll be back later on today if not tomorrow... salam. Edited by icforumadmin - 17 July 2008 at 1:13pm

minuteman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642	Posted: 18 July 2008 at 3:11am
	Is this thread still alive? I was surprised about the accuracy with which Deus (post of 17 July 2005) replied to questioner. And also others friends have advised Jazz in good manner, I need not mention those points. In fact everything is mentioned for Jazz, e.g. to read the few verses before and few verses after to get to the point please. I learnt something special from the post of Deus (I may mention it later). Well things have been explained to Jazz but the arguments (Questions) do not seem to be solved. I know the reason. It is due to being over simple (and friendly) in translating the word Kafir. Kafir is not a simple disbeliever. he/she is a hostile enemy type disbeliever. He niether believes nor lets any one believe and he gets ready to stop the spread of the message of Peace i.e Islam. He goes to fight Islam. Please bear that meaning of the word Kafir in mind and then translate any verse of the Quran. Things will be very clear at once. I have to close this post now. But I will now prepare another which will have the original verses mentioned in these posts to prove my point. So for my reply to Jazz, please note the verses which you intend to understand. See the original (Arabic) word in that verse if there is the word Kafir. If it is there then know that the order to fight is against an utter enemy of Islam. There is no order to fight and kill any peaceful person of any faith. I hope it settles the matter.

minuteman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642	Posted: 18 July 2008 at 3:24am
	What I learnt from the post of Deus was the translation of the word Aulia as " allies ". That was very good of M. Asad, the famous translator of Quran. It makes matter clear. Do not make allies of the Jews and the christians (It was a war time for Muslims. War was being imposed upon the newly weakling state of Madinah). The meaning "allies: is correct because the word in Arabic is Aulia, which is plural of Wali.The meaning of Wali in not a friend only. It has the meaning of supporter or caretaker or guardian. The meaning 'Guardian' is very clear as we use the word Wali as a guardian during NIkah (Marriage). So the word Aulia being the plural of Wali will also have a wide ranging meaning including allies, supporters and guardians. The meaning "Friend" is not a good meaning and never a proper meaning at all. Therefore the verse ...... means "O believers, do not take the Jews and christians as your allies (or supporters). Some of them are the allies of the others....." And there is no harm in that meaning. The verse does not say that believers should be the enemies of the Jews and the christians. Please see the verses.

minuteman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642	Posted: 18 July 2008 at 3:43am
	(02:85) Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? But what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life? And on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.(s. 2, v. 85) This verse is addressing the Jews, not he Muslims, even though the contents apply to Muslims too. The verses of chapter 2, verse 83 to 86 should be read altogether to get to the meaning of verse 2:85.

minuteman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642	Posted: 18 July 2008 at 3:51am
	How does one explain this, from Quran? [5:51] "O you who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians for friends; they are friends to each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people" Does this mean to say that a "believer" who takes a Jew or Christian as a friend is a Jew or a Christian? No, not necessary unless there is war being imposed by the Jews or the christians. The matter has been explained very well previuosly that teh Correct translation of the verse 5:51 is as follows: [5:51] "O you who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians for allies (or guardians); they are allies (and guardians) of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for an alliy (or guardian) then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people"

minuteman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642	Posted: 24 July 2008 at 12:46am
	That seems to end most of the questions. NO body has reported back anything for a few days now. Anyhow, there was a question about contending or disbelieving in Muhammad while he/she was believing in GOD or Allah. It is necessary to believe in Muhammad too along with Allah. There is no harm. Because the message is coming through Muhammad. Otherwise many people may be teaching and preaching about God. Islam does not disturb them. Quran is a certificate for the truth of all prophets. The other faiths do not support or sanctify any faith except themselves. But Islam tells us that all Messengers had brought the same message from God and that a messenger was sent to every nation. Islam is the Universal religion based on nature and justice. The name of Muhammad is a part of our Kalimah i.e. "There is no God except Allah. Muhammad is a Messenger of Allah". In this way the name of Muhammad is permanently attached with the name of Allah. The name of Muhammad cannot be forgotten or separated from the the name of Allah, the Creator of all things. (More to follow) mm Edited by minuteman - 24 July 2008 at 12:48am

salam Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 23 July 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5	Posted: 24 July 2008 at 3:02am
	*Assala Alaikom* *Just to Add this for "Mauricio"* *ALAWI, is not a religion, but the decendent of the prophet Mohammad "ASWS" the real word is "ALAWI'INE" it's tribe name* *The Alawites are a sect of* *Shi'ite* *Islam prominent in* *Syria. Alawī is not to be confused with* Alevi, a different religious sect based in Turkey, although they share the same etymology. The Alawites take their name from ˤAlī ibn Abī Ṭālib, cousin and son-in-law of Muhammad "ASWS" also the 4^th and last "Rightly Guided Caliph" of Islam. Historically, the Alawites have been called Nusayrīs (Arabic: نصيريون), Nasiriyya, and Ansariyya.**