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minuteman View Drop Down
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Points: 1642 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minuteman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2008 at 11:51pm
 
 Very True. The message of Jesus was only for the Israelis and not for the whole world for all times. The Jews, under slavery of the Egyptians had become hard hearted. So they were given a hard law which they violated and did not apply with sincerity (and wisdom). There was too much strictness on the outer words without understanding the inner significance.
 
 So came Jesus with the proper understanding of the Torah with some love and compassion, to work within the same law of Torah. he had come to relieve the Jews from their false practices and from their subjugation of the Romans. But the people in Kana'an, under the misguided Jewish clergy were so far off the real mark that they opposed the man of God (Jesus) and got ready to kill him.
 
 The message of Jesus was only for the Jews and for the time only. It was not required to be forever. There is enough evidence in the bible that Jesus teaching was only for the Jews. There is 100% proof in the Quran that Jesus teaching was only for the children of Jacob (Israel). So, it was not required to be preserved. God did not fail to protect it. It happened according to the plan of Allah.
 
 But when came the quran, it is final and last testament, a message from Allah. It should not be lost. So Allah took care for it and told in the Quran itself that He had revealed that knowledge (Quran) and that he was its guardian.  We are not saying it. Allah said it Himself in the final testament and we believe that the teachings of the Quran are forever.
 
 The Jews and christians are believers and they are our beloved brethren.


Edited by minuteman - 18 July 2008 at 11:56pm
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2008 at 2:04pm

minuteman - By saying Remember Jews and Christians are not polytheists.  We have a different perception of what the One True GOD is.  I am not trying to combine Jews and Christians into one faith.

One must not compare Jesus with Mohammad, but with the Quran.  Is one Allah's inanimate word for man, for we know the other is GOD's Living Word for man. 
 
honeto -
 
Psalm 12
6The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

 7Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

The message of Jesus was to correct all the false practices of the Jews and THEN with His death fulfill the law so that all Gentile would be able to be grafted onto the vine of the Jews.
 
There was no way to change the words of the Holy Scripture for there were too many copies floating around.  This for sure is talking about the deeds of the Christians.  
 
Don't Muslims say that Allah does not abrogate scruipture? 
 
Which verses were written first?
 
One could say that the Old testament is for just the Jews, but you can not say that about the New Testament.
 
The proof is not strong enough to present the Quran as GOD's Word.
 
I do believe it is possible that God's Word might be hidden safely in the Quran but not as it has been translated today.
 
minuteman - thank you for that statement I appreciate it!-- believers and they are our beloved brethren.
 
Maybe it is a test for us from GOD to see how we treat each other!?!
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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robin View Drop Down
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Points: 595 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2008 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by minuteman minuteman wrote:

 
The message of Jesus was only for the Israelis and not for the whole world for all times.
 
 
That is not what Jesus said:-
 
Matthew 28:16-20
However, the eleven disciples went into Gal�i�lee to the mountain where Jesus had arranged for them, 17 and when they saw him they did obeisance, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."
 
Acts 1:8
but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju�de�a and Sa�mar�i�a and to the most distant part of the earth."
 
Matthew 24:14
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
 
Revelation 14:6
And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,


Edited by robin - 22 July 2008 at 2:52pm
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minuteman View Drop Down
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Points: 1642 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minuteman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2008 at 3:34am
 
 robin I understand your problem. You are a JW. You would say that the message of Jesus was not for the Jews. Well said. I do not believe that. I still say that Jesus was an Israeli prophet and his message was for the Israelis.
 
 But you do not believe that Jesus was an Israeli prophet and that his message was for the Jews. You do not believe all that. So be it.
 
 Please write something from yourself too. Do not just paste the words of the bible NT.
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robin View Drop Down
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Points: 595 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2008 at 12:54am
Originally posted by minuteman minuteman wrote:

 
 
 But you do not believe that Jesus was an Israeli prophet and that his message was for the Jews. You do not believe all that.   THIS I DO BELIEVE!-robin
 
Jesus was a full blood Jew!
 
Jesus also spoke to non jews when he was on earth and told his deciples to take his massage earth wide in due time.
 

Jesus gave Peter 3 keys (Matt 16:18) of the massage, 1st to the Jews, 2nd to the Samaritans, 3rd to the Gentiles.
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2008 at 6:24am
Yes robin- It makes so much sense!!
 
Wouldn't you go to those who were given the law first, then to thiose that knew nothing of GOD's Law?
 
I don't understand why Muslims don't get this.  Maybe because it has been drummed into their heads?  I don't know.  There are many bits of misinformation to correct.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2008 at 6:27am
minuteman said -  "Please write something from yourself too. Do not just paste the words of the bible NT."
 
You have mentioned this to me too.  We have to, we are moved to,  it is GOD's Word by what we live.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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robin View Drop Down
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Points: 595 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2008 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Yes robin- It makes so much sense!!
 
Wouldn't you go to those who were given the law first, then to thiose that knew nothing of GOD's Law?
 
I don't understand why Muslims don't get this.  Maybe because it has been drummed into their heads?  I don't know.  There are many bits of misinformation to correct.
 
That is easy to answer; they taught not believe what the prophet Jesus said!


Edited by robin - 26 July 2008 at 3:24pm
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