The Great Jihad ?

myahya wrote: Evil command from evil God?! God is pure of any evilness. There is no point in argument if you imagine that the origin of worlds (God) is evil. What else would you expect from a created if the main creator be evil?

I don't know how I could make it any clearer.  I don't imagine that God is evil -- but you do if you can imagine God giving such an evil command.

Ron: but you do if you can imagine God giving such an evil command.

I say it was not evil at all. You say it was because you state that �commanding to kill an innocent person� is evil. Can you clarify in what kind of system you are coming up with such a statement?

Edited by myahya - 09 October 2008 at 8:24am

 Response to Ron Webb

 Your understanding of this event is poor.Let me quote verses from Quran and also its commentary.

 (37:102) and when he was old enough to go about and work with him, (one day) Abraham said to him: �My son, I see in my dream that I am slaughtering you. *58 So consider (and tell me) what you think.� He said: �Do as you are bidden. *60 You will find me, if Allah so wills, among the steadfast.�

 Commentary by Maulana Maududi

 *58 One should note that the Prophet Abraham had dreamt that he was sacrificing his son and not that he had sacrificed him. Although at that time he understood the dream to mean that he should sacrifice his son and on that very basis, he became ready to sacrifice him, with a cool mind, yet the fine point that Allah had in view in making him see the dream has been explained by Himself in verse 105 below.

 *60 The words clearly tell that the son had not taken the dream of his Prophet father to be a mere dream but a Command from Allah. Had it not been a Command actually, it was necessary that Allah should have explicitly or implicitly stated that the son of Abraham had mistaken it for a command. But the whole context is without any such allusion. On this very basis, there is the Islamic belief that the dream of the Prophets is never a mere dream it is also a kind of Revelation. Obviously, if a thing, which could become such a fundamental principle in the Divine Shari'ah, had not been based on reality, but had been a mere misunderstanding, it was not possible that Allah should not have refuted it. It is impossible for the one who believes the Qur'an to be Allah's Word, to accept That such an error and omission could emanate from Allah also.

(37:103) When both surrendered (to Allah�s command) and Abraham flung the son down on his forehead,

(37:104) We cried out: �O Abraham,

(37:105) you have indeed fulfilled your dream. *63 Thus do We reward the good-doers.� *64

*63 That is, "We did not make you see in the dream that you had actually slaughtered your son and he had died, but that you were slaughtering him. That Vision you have fulfilled. Now, it is not Our will w take the life of your child: the actual object of the vision has been fulfilled by your submission and preparation to sacrifice him for Our sake."

*64 That is, "We do not subject the people who adopt the righteous way to trials in order to involve them in trouble and distress and affliction just for the sake of it, but these trials are meant to bring out their excellencies and to exalt them to high ranks, and then We deliver them also safe and sound from the dilemma in which We place them for the sake of the trial. Thus, your willingness and preparation to sacrifice yow son is enough to entitle you to be exalted to the rank that could be attained only by the one who would actually have slaughtered his son for Our approval and pleasure. Thus, We have saved the life of yow child as well as exalted you to this high rank. "(Source)

myahya wrote: In Islam �commanding to kill an innocent person� (by itself) does not have enough information based on which one can decide whether it is moral or not. The first question might be �who is commanding�. If a human is commanding it is immoral and if it happens it is a great sin, but If God is commanding then He is the owner and the creator while it might have many reasons that we do not know. He is the owner and the creator who has totally different rights, powers and knowledge.

If you are saying that God's own moral rules do not apply to Himself, then in addition to being evil, you are saying he is a hypocrite.

Mansoor_Al wrote: Your understanding of this event is poor.

Maybe so, but your commentary doesn't change anything.  Killing an innocent person is still evil, and so is commanding it -- regardless of who gives the command.