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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2009 at 12:41pm
I most certainly do not want to 'know' more. . . . I have heard enough.
 
For the record, my feelings in this matter are probably no different than Sign Readers.
 
A hard pill to swallow? More like an unbelievable lie. . . and extremely offensive. Some people of the ummah have really stooped low Cry
 
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2009 at 2:45pm
asda
You are such moron after so much discussion with Chrysalis you haven't figured that is she and not he...who is the idiot here?
There is no hard pill to swallow when you ....just stick to the facts and the facts are the truth and truth will set you free .....the truth clearly put you and your ilk  in the category of Jews and then the ones who have been playing and keeping the Christians the guilt ridden about the holocaust.... don't you see the similarity when you juxtapose the Shiism and Zionism....I dare you to rebut the argument....Forget about the wives of the Prophet it is neither here or there for now cuz you the Shias and Satan are same thing ...them and Muslims are not on the same page with their blood line religion .....

History time and again indicates the Shiis were party to letting Western Imperialism and colonizers in!Ouch Just like they have an agenda to malign the Islam and it's Prophet's system! You guys have an agenda to do the same and I would not let you get away with it ...Just mark my words...Gutter Mouth

At least for now the Western Imperialism is on the ropes with their crumbling economies a blow back for their crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan et al
The good news is that the thinking people in the Ummah are waking up to the reality and bad news is that they woke up too late to to find the turn coats... Better late than never.............


Edited by Sign*Reader - 21 February 2009 at 2:53pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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asda View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2009 at 8:20am
Originally posted by Chrysalis Chrysalis wrote:

I most certainly do not want to 'know' more. . . . I have heard enough.
 
For the record, my feelings in this matter are probably no different than Sign Readers.
 
A hard pill to swallow? More like an unbelievable lie. . . and extremely offensive. Some people of the ummah have really stooped low Cry
 


okay.....i hope u dont start acting like the nawaasib...

may allah (s.w.t) guide you to siraate mustaqeem

regards
asda..
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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2009 at 10:46am
Originally posted by asda asda wrote:



okay.....i hope u dont start acting like the nawaasib...
 
"Nawasib are those Sunnis who have a violent hatred for the Shiites and the family of the Prophet"

Interestingly, the only 'hating' that happens is from the Shia (towards God knows how many Caliphs, Sahaba, Umhatul Momineen). Other (Non-Shia) Muslims dont have a violent hatred for any prominent muslim figure. Did you ever come across any "Sunni" that expressed hatred for the Prophet or any of his family member? Just because we dont fall into the extremist 'worshipping' trap (for Ali (r.a) and family) does not automatically mean we nauzubillah hate him! Which is why we dont have any such traditions/practise of violently 'cursing' prominent Muslim ashaab.

Quote
may allah (s.w.t) guide you to siraate mustaqeem

Ameen.

"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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myahya View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2009 at 8:16am

I am sorry to see that a mature conversation couldn�t be held here, quite disappointing.

Chrysalis, I do not love everyone who had simply been with the prophet (sawa). There is no reason for that. Many of Monafeghin used to accompany the prophet. Therefore, BEING with the prophet PHYSICALLY does not bring any justifiable value for being beloved of Muslims. My love after Allah (swt) is towards His infallible prophet (sawa) and infallible Ahlul-Bayt (as). This is my ONLY beloved source who defines the real means of following and religion for me. These infallibles are the prophet (sawa), Fatima (as) and 12 Imams neither one person more nor less.

Usmani, I have brought so many references which directly relate to the purification verse. You, instead, have picked up one hadith from Sahih Bukhari with the word Ahlul Bayt in it which has nothing to do with the purification verse. Can you understand the difference?!!! Is Sahih Bukhari a second Quran for you that you prefer it to enormous direct ahadith regarding purification verse from other authentic books?

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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2009 at 9:21am
Originally posted by myahya myahya wrote:

Chrysalis, I do not love everyone who had simply been with the prophet (sawa). There is no reason for that. Many of Monafeghin used to accompany the prophet. Therefore, BEING with the prophet PHYSICALLY does not bring any justifiable value for being beloved of Muslims. My love after Allah (swt) is towards His infallible prophet (sawa) and infallible Ahlul-Bayt (as). This is my ONLY beloved source who defines the real means of following and religion for me. These infallibles are the prophet (sawa), Fatima (as) and 12 Imams neither one person more nor less.

Ridiculous. There is a difference b/w people who surrounded the Prophet physically, and those that were his circle of trust. I was clearly referring to the sahaba he trusted, and loved. And it is those sahaba that we take religion from. . . rather than restrict our religion to a favoured, rare few (not to mention imaginery, ordinary, error prone Imams, who will 'come' ages and ages AFTER Prophet Muhamamad perfected Islam)
 
So the 12 imams that will eventually come into this world, as ordinary human biengs, are better Muslims than the Prophet's wives and his trusted companions? Your loyalty and trust is misplaced my friend, grossly.
 
We do not love anyone that Prophet Muhammad never loved. And we love everyone whom he loved (Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman, Ali, Fatima, Aisha, Hassan, Hussain (R.A) inclusive) There is a difference b/w these Sahaba, and just any random bedoiun/nonmuslim the Prophet may have seen/met/been with (like u suggest)
 
 
This is a typical response the Shia give, when we talk about Prophet Muhammad's Companions and his wives. Apparently, according to you guys, they are to be equated with Munafiqeen? Aazubillah. Since this does not seem to sink in for you guys, let me give you an example:
 
An example of a Munafiq:  Abullah bin Ubai.
 
Mentionable facts: Allah told Prophet Muhammad about his hypocrisy/Munafqat, and the Prophet never trusted him, nor considered him his friend, nor did he ever entrust him with an Islamic task, never did he consult him, never did he love him. Abdullah Bin Ubai, was disliked by most muslims of the time. He was friend with the Kuffaar and a spy.
 
How do Umar, Abu Bakr, Aisha (R.A) fulfill the criteria of a Munafiq? When they were clearly trusted by the Prophet, and loved by him? You are suggesting just like Asda, that Prophet Muhamamd nauzubillah had bad judgement, and he married women that were nauzubillah bad muslims, and Allah let him make them Umhat-ul-Momineen.
 
Did or did not Prophet Muhamamd have good judgement of people?
 
Was he not infallible? If he was, then why would he make an error in judging not only one, but several of his beloved companions?
 
Was not Allah responsible in correcting Prophet Muhammad if he nazubillah committed a mistake?
 
Would Allah let 'evil' 'munafiq' people influence the Prophet?
 
 
If the answer to the above questions is 'Yes, Yes. Yes, No' - then trust in Allah and His judgement, and His Prophet's judgement, and accept the facts. . . and stop tainting otherwise good muslims, that is a sin.
 
Otherwise, To you be your Way, and to me mine.
 
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Usmani View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2009 at 2:26am

Myahaya,

 

You said:- I have brought so many references which directly relate to the purification verse.

 

>>>Yes you have brought so many references. First thing is that just to provide references without the matter have no use secondly few yours matter you have provided  the sources of these are not famous and unknown to me.

 

You said:- You, instead, have picked up one hadith from Sahih Bukhari with the word Ahlul Bayt in it which has nothing to do with the purification verse.

 

>>>How do you sure that it has nothing to do with purification verse, secondly how do you explain that ahle bayt has two meanings one is with the wife and other without wife? Please provide the support of Arabic grammar in yours reply.

 

You said:- ?!!! Is Sahih Bukhari a second Quran for you that you prefer it to enormous direct ahadith regarding purification verse from other authentic books?

 

>>>I have one Quran only, Sahih Bukhari is the most authentic ahadith book only.Further more you did not provide a single hadith which show yours point of view from any famous ahadith books like muslim,sunan abu daud,termizi,Mauta,forget bukhari.

 

Further more for the infallibility of Prophet(pbuh) there could be lots of verses of Quran be seen which are directly or indirectly showing the infallibility. Could you bring a single verse where it is showing the infallibility of four of ahle bayt as you claimed,apart from 33:33 where Allah talking to the wives(Umahatul Momaneen).If the Prophet(pbuh) did not told us about four are also ahle bayt no one can know it from Quran. I am sure you can never do it because there is non.You are only following the conjectures.



Edited by Usmani - 25 February 2009 at 2:35am
Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds
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asda View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2009 at 5:39am
Salaam'alaikum...


Br. mayahya....
ya i knw there are many queries left unanswered....but now i guess....rather than streching this discussion, its better to leave it as it is....i hope they will one day ponder over these queries...

Originally posted by Chrysalis Chrysalis wrote:

Originally posted by asda asda wrote:



okay.....i hope u dont start acting like the nawaasib...
 
"Nawasib are those Sunnis who have a violent hatred for the Shiites and the family of the Prophet"

Interestingly, the only 'hating' that happens is from the Shia (towards God knows how many Caliphs, Sahaba, Umhatul Momineen). Other (Non-Shia) Muslims dont have a violent hatred for any prominent muslim figure. Did you ever come across any "Sunni" that expressed hatred for the Prophet or any of his family member? Just because we dont fall into the extremist 'worshipping' trap (for Ali (r.a) and family) does not automatically mean we nauzubillah hate him! Which is why we dont have any such traditions/practise of violently 'cursing' prominent Muslim ashaab.

Quote
may allah (s.w.t) guide you to siraate mustaqeem

Ameen.




well...i wudnt have wanted to comment on this....but re-reading it i realized dat u accuse the lovers of rasulullah (s.a.w) and his ahlel bayt (a.s) to instigate violence....and to support ure sentence u say that we kinda curse ure elders....well well..."curse"????.....i dont think any knowledgable person in his right mind wud do dat...we dont curse them.....and u made dat claim widout any proof...

well i can bring varios books/fatwa of scholars of ahlus sunna instigating violence on shia muslims......but its useless to bring them here........for me...it does not matter who starts it......it matters who tries to deffuse the tentions in a civilized way.......and alhamdulillah, the shia muslims have not been the starters...history is evident of this fact....and ya...nor do i blame common ahlus sunna brothers....

regards
asda
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