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owen.grandison
Newbie Joined: 03 March 2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 27 |
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Who was St. Augustine?
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seekshidayath
Senior Member Female Islam Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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Hhah! that was my answer in very brief. Thanks for sharing. You can also check a section "Prophet-Muhammad" ,{sallal lahu alayhi wasallam}, amongst our other sections and know more of this great personality.
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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believer
Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397 |
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A description with one of the Quran pictures linked mentions that Uhtmann was murdered. Why? Anyone know why one of the following was not responsible for compiling and standardizing the Quran, why Uthmann? Had Uthman and Mohammad ever met?
Sahih Hadith, Volume 6, Book 61, Number 521: Narrated Masriq: Sahih Hadith of Bukhari. Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510: Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of I find it sad that all the copies were detroyed.
Does anyone know where the original leaves and bones are that the verses were written on as Mohammad revealed them?
Also my understanding from hadeth is that the Quran was not compiled until after Mohammad's death.
Sahih Hadith of Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 61, Number 509: Narrated Zaid bin Thabit: Abu Bakr As-Siddiq sent for me when the people of Yamama had been killed (i.e., a number of the Prophet's Companions who fought against Musailama). (I went to him) and found 'Umar bin Al-Khattab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said (to me), "Umar has come to me and said: "Casualties were heavy among the Qurra' of the Quran (i.e. those who knew the Quran by heart) on the day of the Battle of Yamama and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra' on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Quran may be lost. Therefore I suggest, you (Abu Bakr) order that the Quran be collected." I said to 'Umar, "How can you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?" 'Umar said, "By Allah, that is a good project. "Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allah opened my chest for it and I began to realize the good in the idea which 'Umar had realized." Then Abu Bakr said (to me). 'You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. So you should search for (the fragmentary scripts of) the Quran and collect it in one book)." By Allah If they had ordered me to shift one of the mountains, it would not have been heavier for me than this ordering me to collect the Quran. Then I said to Abu Bakr, "How will you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?" Abu Bakr replied, "By Allah, it is a good project." Abu Bakr kept on urging me to accept his idea until Allah opened my chest for what He had opened the chests of Abu Bakr and 'Umar. So I started looking for the Quran and collecting it from (what was written on) palmed stalks, thin white stones and also from the men who knew it by heart, till I found the last Verse of Surat At-Tauba (Repentance) with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. The Verse is: 'Verily there has come unto you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty... (till the end of Surat-Baraa' (At-Tauba) (9.128-129) Then the complete manuscripts (copy) of the Quran remained with Abu Bakr till he died, then with 'Umar till the end of his life, and then with Hafsa, the daughter of 'Umar. |
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
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owen.grandison
Newbie Joined: 03 March 2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 27 |
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Now the orthodox sunni muslims of today have never seen the real qur'aan. They don't even have some of the original pages. It was burnt by muhammad's own "companions" sahaaba.
It seems as though every orthodox sunni msulim organisation you meet is claiming to have the "oldest" qur'aan in their possession, since they cannot produce an orginal manuscript of the qur'aan as it was recited by muhammad. However the christians hve the original aramiac and greek manuscripts of the bible, they are authentic. They recently found part of the original bible, the hand written dead sea scrolls in the cave side of qumram, located in the jordan river area. The dead sea scrolls of the qumran caves which were discovered in 1947 A.D. are the oldest surviving records of the old testament, some of them were written in the aramaic language while others in the hebrew language. These scrolls are associated with the essenes who found a strick religious community off the northwestern hore of the dead sea. The messiah jesus and john the baptist were both members of the essene. Therefore, don't christians have a better source of reference? Muslims are only relying on faith that the qur'aan they have is right, because they have not yet recovered an original copy of the qur'aan. So where is an authentic copy of the original qur'aan? It does not exist; however they will lie and say that they have the "oldest" qur'aan giving you the impression that it is orginal. Thhey did not expect for me to read their books carefully and find the following contradictions. Now you too can ask the orthodox sunnis muslims which is the oldest qur'aan? In the "muhammad encyclopedia of seera," volume 3, published in 1985 A.D. which is sanctioned by saudi arabia's dr. abdullah o. naseef, we read the caption: Ma'il (slanting) script is one of the oldest extant qur'ans, copied at medina in the 8th century." Then in a book entitled "The road to holy mecca" By hussein yoshio hirashima, printed in 1972 A.D. i found this caption on page 27: "This hurge, handwritten qur'aan is the oldest in the world, dating from the tenth century. It is preserved in the egyptian national museum in cairo and rarely displayed to the public." I want to stop right here and make a point, how is it that egypt claims to have the oldest copy of the qur'aan dating to the tenth century A.D and the other copy of the qur'an dates to the eighth century A.D.? This is clearly a two hundred year difference. These orthodox sunni muslims must think you and i are real fools. Then in "The qur'an the final testament," by rashad khalifa, printed in 1989 A.D. on page 614 i found this caption: The oldest available copy of the qur'aan, the tashkent copy." So ask the orthodox sunni muslims, which is the oldest copy of the qur'aan? And all three are in different kufi scripts, why? |
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owen.grandison
Newbie Joined: 03 March 2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 27 |
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As the verses from the qur'aan were revealed, they were written down on anything that was available, paper, etc. and a lot of it was put to memory by those whose job it was to commit the qur'aan to memory, called Al qura'aa'u.
The primary and oldest manuscripts or codices are of the following people: A) Salim (d.12) B) Umar ubai b. ka'ab (d.29) C) Ibn mas'ud (d.33) D) Ali (d.40) E) Abu musa al-ash'ari (d.44) F) Hafsa (d.45) G) Zayb b. thaabit (d.48) H) Ayisha (d.48) I ) Umm salama (d.58) J) Abdallah b, amr (d.65) K) Ibn abbas (d.68) L) Ibn zubair (d.73) M) Ubayd b. umair (d.74) N) Anas b. malik (d.91) Then, the language the qur'aan was revealed in, was ordered to be changed by the caliph uthmaan. 507. Narrated anas bin malik: (the caliph uthman ordered zaid bin thabit, sa'id bin al' as, abdullah bin az-zubair and abdur-rahman bin al harith bin hisham to write the qur'an in the form of a book (mushafs) and said to them, "in case you disagree with zaid bin thabit (al ansari) regarding any dialectic arabic utterance of the qur'an, then write it in the dialect of quraish, for the qur'an was revealed in this dealect." So they did it. Sahih al bukhari, volume 6, page 475 Now ask the orthodox sunni muslims is the qur'aan in classical arabic or is it the quraysh/quraish dialect as this hadith says? There are some of you who say that the "dialect arabic utterances of the qur'aan, and the dialect of quraish" are one and the same. Thus the qur'aan if changed at all, is still pure. If this is true, then why wouldn't the quraish overstand these "dialect arabic utterances," if this was their native language? This shows that they were two separate things. The arabic word which is being translated as "dialects" in the above hadith 507 from bukhari is "lisaan." As a word lisaan means "tongue," as wells as "dialect." This is similar to the arabic word "lughatun," which means "language." In the ashuric/syriac arabic there are two words for dialect: lahjat and darajat and neither of these words is found in this hadith. Lugha - Language Al lugha - Classical arabic Lughawiy - Linguist Laghw - Fooling, Talking, Nonsense; Ungrammatical language (Hans wehr arabic-english dictionary) What the hadiyth is really saying is if the compilers of the qur'aan came to a discrepancy, then they were to write the qur'aan in the dialect of the quraysh tribe (just one of the many tribes living in arabia at the time) which means somebody was writing the qur'aan down in a dialect other than what it was revealed in. So if phrases were replaced in the qur'aan with quraysh "dialect," this was probably the only copy of the complete qur'aan that existed at the time, then the qur'aan which you hold in your hands today is not all of allah's words. |
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Chrysalis
Senior Member Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
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Usman (r.a) was not as strict a Caliph as Umar (r.a) and his caliphate saw the emergence of some civil war , due to certain governors and officers becoming overbold. Some of the civil strife was partly the fault of the Jew, Abdullah bin Sabah - who spread fitnah and rumours among weaker muslims. It was a result of these (political differences) and rumours that caused riots, which led to a siege of the Caliph - and his Martyrdom.
Yes, Usman (R.A) and Prophet Muhammad, not only met - they were close companions. Usman (r.a) was also Prophet Muhammad's son-in-law. He participated in all battles with Prophet Muhammad, except one. Usman was also one of the scribes of Prophet Muhammad (and he had many scribes) and wrote down verses of the Qur'an as they were revealed. Hence, as a trusted scribe of the Prophet - he was perfectly qualified for the job of compilation.
One of the reasons why Usman (R.a) standardized the Qur'an was because by his time (Caliphate), the Muslim empire had spread far and wide - with numerous non-arab speakers. Due to so many Muslim ethnicities and dialects - the problem of standardisation surfaced. The problem was laid out by Usman in front of various Companions of Prophet Muhammad, and it was decided toghether that the copy that was compiled during Abu Bakr's time should be taken as the standard one. Abu Bakr (1st Caliph) passed it on to Umar (2nd Caliph) - who left it with his daugher (Prophet Muhammad's wife, Hafsa). Usman sent for that copy, and had it distributed.
Excerpt:
Zaid bin Thabit, (another) trusted scribe of the revelation, was asked to prepare seven copies from it. He was to be helped by three more men, who had the Qur'an by heart.
Zaid himself had the whole Qur'an by heart. He was also one of the scribes of the revelation. First, he wrote out the whole book from memory. Then he read it out to a gathering of Muhajirun and Ansar three times. Then he compared this copy with the one that was with Hafsa. The two copies were exactly alike. Seven more copies were then written out and sent to different parts of the country.
No need to feel sad. It was important to destroy any copies that were not authenticated, to prevent adulteration of unauthenticated material into original Qur'an. There was no point in allowing the existence of material that was not authenticated - better safe than sorry.
Correct, the Qur'an was not in a "Book" form during Prophet Muhammad's lifetime. But it was written down during his lifetime. The "Book" was compiled during Abu Bakr's Caliphate. Pertinent point: His caliphate was 2yrs only, so it took less than that to compile a book form.
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Chrysalis
Senior Member Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
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For more information on the subject:
Question: There were many versions of the Qur�an all of which were burnt by Usman (r.a.) except for one. Therefore is it not true that the present Qur�an is the one compiled by Usman (r.a.) and not the original revelation of God?Answer: One of the most common myths about the Qur�an, is that Usman (r.a.), the third Caliph of Islam authenticated and compiled one Qur�an, from a large set of mutually contradicting copies. The Qur�an, revered as the Word of Allah (swt) by Muslims the world over, is the same Qur�an as the one revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It was authenticated and written under his personal supervision. We will examine the roots of the myth which says that Usman (r.a.) had the Qur�an authenticated. 1. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself supervised and authenticated the written texts of the Qur�an Whenever the Prophet received a revelation, he would first memorize it himself and later declare the revelation and instruct his Companions (R.A. � Radhi Allahu Taala Anhu) � May Allah be pleased with him who would also memorize it. The Prophet would immediately ask the scribes to write down the revelation he had received, and he would reconfirm and recheck it himself. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was an Ummi who could not read and write. Therefore, after receiving each revelation, he would repeat it to his Companions. They would write down the revelation, and he would recheck by asking them to read what they had written. If there was any mistake, the Prophet would immediately point it out and have it corrected and rechecked. Similarly he would even recheck and authenticate the portions of the Qur�an memorized by the Companions. In this way, the complete Qur�an was written down under the personal supervision of the prophet (pbuh). 2. Order and sequence of Qur�an divinely inspired The complete Qur�an was revealed over a period of 22� years portion by portion, as and when it was required. The Qur�an was not compiled by the Prophet in the chronological order of revelation. The order and sequence of the Qur�an too was Divinely inspired and was instructed to the Prophet by Allah (swt) through archangel Jibraeel. Whenever a revelation was conveyed to his companions, the Prophet would also mention in which surah (chapter) and after which ayat (verse) this new revelation should fit.Every Ramadhaan all the portions of the Qur�an that had been revealed, including the order of the verses, were revised and reconfirmed by the Prophet with archangel Jibraeel. During the last Ramadhaan, before the demise of the Prophet, the Qur�an was rechecked and reconfirmed twice. It is therefore clearly evident that the Qur�an was compiled and authenticated by the Prophet himself during his lifetime, both in the written form as well as in the memory of several of his Companions. 4. Usman (r.a.) made copies of the Qur�an from the original manuscript Many Companions of the Prophet used to write down the revelation of the Qur�an on their own whenever they heard it from the lips of the Prophet. However what they wrote was not personally verified by the Prophet and thus could contain mistakes. All the verses revealed to the Prophet may not have been heard personally by all the Companions. There were high possibilities of different portions of the Qur�an being missed by different Companions. This gave rise to disputes among Muslims regarding the different contents of the Qur�an during the period of the third Caliph Usman (r.a.). Usman (r.a.) borrowed the original manuscript of the Qur�an, which was authorized by the beloved Prophet (pbuh), from Hafsa (may Allah be pleased with her), the Prophet�s wife. Usman (r.a.) ordered four Companions who were among the scribes who wrote the Qur�an when the Prophet dictated it, led by Zaid bin Thabit (r.a.) to rewrite the script in several perfect copies. These were sent by Usman (r.a.) to the main centres of Muslims. There were other personal collections of the portions of the Qur�an that people had with them. These might have been incomplete and with mistakes. Usman (r.a.) only appealed to the people to destroy all these copies which did not match the original manuscript of the Qur�an in order to preserve the original text of the Qur�an. Two such copies of the copied text of the original Qur�an authenticated by the Prophet are present to this day, one at the museum in Tashkent in erstwhile Soviet Union and the other at the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, Turkey. 5. Diacritical marks were added for non-Arabs The original manuscript of the Qur�an does not have the signs indicating the vowels in Arabic script. These vowels are known as tashkil, zabar, zair, paish in Urdu and as fatah, damma and qasra in Arabic. The Arabs did not require the vowel signs and diacritical marks for correct pronunciation of the Qur�an since it was their mother tongue. For Muslims of non-Arab origin, however, it was difficult to recite the Qur�an correctly without the vowels. These marks were introduced into the Quranic script during the time of the fifth �Umayyad� Caliph, Malik-ar-Marwan (66-86 Hijri/685-705 C.E.) and during the governorship of Al-Hajaj in Iraq.
"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption)." |
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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owen.grandison
Newbie Joined: 03 March 2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 27 |
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The qur'aan has been rewritten and revised. The original qur'aan was burned after the prophet muhammad's death by the third caliph (successor), according to the orthodox sunni school of thought, 'uthmaan ibn affaan ibn abdul aasiy (574-656 A.D.).
This is related in reference to the account of the burning of the qur'aan: "The new edition of the qur'an thus pbulished differed from the first edition seems probable from the fact that, as qustalani says, after hafsah's death her copy was torn in pieces by mirwan, governor of medina under mu'awiyyah. T he burning of all other copies shows that serious variations had already found an entrance into the text, and this drastic remedy prevents us from comparing ancient copies with one another." (Christian reply to muslim objections, page 61, W. st. clair tisdall, light of life, austria, 1980 A.D.) Uthmaan authorized the revision of the first qur'aan prior to its distribution. Here is an excerpt from the book entitled "introduction to islam" relating this event: "Uthman caused immediately the copy prepared for abu-bakr to be entrusted to a commission, presided oveer by the above-mentioned zaid ibn thabit, for preparing seven copies; he authorized them to revise the old spelling if necessary. When the task was completed the c aliph caused a public reading of the new "edition" before the experts present in the capital, from among the companions of the prophet, and then sent these copies to different centers of the vast islamic world, ordering that thenceforward all copies should be based only on the authentic edition. He ordered the destruction of copies which any way deviated from the text thus officially established" (Introduction to islam, page 18-19, muhammad hamidullah, centre culturel islamique, paris, 1969 A.D.). No one can say that they have a copy of the original qur'aan in this day and time. The chapters of the qur'aan have been re-arranged in a different order than that which was revealed to the prophet muhammad. For example, suwratul faatiha was not the first revealed to the prophet muhamaad it was the fifth, so even its name which means "opening" must be wrong. However ,when the qur'aan was being compiled, it was placed as the first chapter withouth the prophet muhammad's approval. The following hadith illustrates the fact that the qur'aan was cimpiled and recited as people wanted. There was no set guidelines, or standards as to its compiling. According to muslims it did not matter which verse was read first: 515 Narrated yusuf bin mahk: while i was with aisha, the mother of the believers, a person from iraq came and asked, "what type of shroud is best?" Aisha said, "may allah be merciful to you! What does it matter?" He said, "o mother of the believers! Show me the copy of your qur'an," She said, "why?" he said, "in order to compile and arrange the qur'an according to it for people recite it with its suras not in proper order. "Aisha said, "what does it matter which part of it you read first? (be informed that the first thing that was revealed thereof was a sura from al mufassal, and in it was mentioned paradise and fire..." Sahih al bukhari, volum 6, page 483 The 113 & 114 chapters of t he qur'aan didn't have names when they were revealed. When the qur'aan was being compiled the companions of the prophet muhammad gave the chapters the names they have now. Isn't it true, that if all the names of t he chapters were removed, since they were not divinely inspired nor part of the original qur'aan would the qur'aan still be complete? The chapters of the qur'aan have more than one name? Did the prophet muhammad receive all these names?: Suwrah al-hamd faatihatul kitaab umm al-kitaab The 9th chapter of the qur'aan is known by two names: Suwratul tawbah Suwratul bara'at The 94th chapter of the qur'aan is known by three names: Suwrah inshira The 111th chapter of the qur'aan is known by two names: Suwratul masada suratul lahab The 35th chapter of the qur'aan is known by two names: suwratul fatir suwratul malaika the 106th chapter of the qur'aan is known by two names: Suwratul quraish ash shitaa The 17th chapter of the qur'aan is known by two names: Suwratul israa Bani israel The 76th chapter of the qur'aan is known by two names: suwratul insaan suratul dahri I have a handwritten kufic qur'aan which is in my possession that dates back to the early 1700's A.D. it has no markings where verses end, nor start and it is not voweled. Who separated the qur'aan into verseds and chapters after the prophet muhammad died? The qur'aan has extra verses The qur'aan is said to have extra verses and chapters which were not included in the qur'aan: When the prophet muhammad first received his revelation, those who wrote it down mad notations on the margins which caused confusion. When later scribes collected the qur'aan for final approval. This is a published book confirming that this sort of "note taking" could have wound up being part of the qur'aan: "For instance, some of the compatnions had noted down explanatory words and comments on the margins of their copies and it was feared that these might get mi8xed up with the origianl text of the qur'an..." (From "introduction to the study of the qur'an", page 26, abudl a'la maududi, delhi art prerss, india, 1971 A.D.). Other people besides the prophet muhammad received verses of the qur'aan. There has also been attributed to abu bakr a verse which is still found in the qur'aan today, (the qur'aan 3:144). This verse is found in the following hadith: 733 Narrated ibn abbas: Abu bakr went out while umar bin al-khattab was talking to the people. Abu bakr said , sit down o umar. But umar refused to sit down. So the people came to abu bakr and left umar. Abu bakr said "to proceed if anyone amongst you use to worship muhammad then muhammad is dead but if andyone of you used to worship allah, then allah is alive and shall neveer die. Allah said: muhammad is no more than an apostle and indeed many apostles have passed away before him (till the end of the verse)... allah will reward those who are thankful. By allah, it was as if the people never knew that allah had revealed this verse beforer till abu bakr recited it and all the people received it from him and i heard everybody reciting it then. Sahih al bukhar, volume 5 page 523 and on page 114, of why i am not a muslim, by ibn warraq, it says the following concerning the story of abd allah b. sa'd abi sarh about the qur'aan: "The last name had for some time been one of the scribes employed at medina to write down the revelations. On a number of occasions he had, with the prophet's consent, changed the closing wordsd of verses. When the prophet had said "and god is mighty and wise" abd allah suggested writingdown "knowing and wise" and the prophet answered that there was no objection. Having observed a succewssion of changes of this type abd allah renounced islam on the ground that the revelations if from god could not be changed at the prompting of a scribe such as himself. After his apostasy he went to mecca and joined the qorayshites. |
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