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seekshidayath
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Edited by seekshidayath - 10 March 2009 at 12:32am |
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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owen.grandison
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The reason why i say orthodox sunni muslims is because there is a difference between shi'ites, ahmadiyyah and various other sects. If you are an orthodox sunni muslim you don't believe as they do there are differences in the belief somewhere along the line. And thats why you fight and kill each other which is a shame because all life is sacred. So there is denomination in islam.
The verses of the qur'aan changed while being revealed to suit the needs of the prophet muhamma's followers. The follwoing hadith is a perfect example of how the verses of the qur'aan were changed to please a blind man: 512. Narrated al-bara: there was revealed: not equal are those believers who sit at home and those who strive and fight in the cause of allah. (4:95) The prophe said, "call zaid for me and let him bring the board, the inkpot and teh scapula bone (or the scapula bone and the inkpot)." Then he said, "write Not equal are those believers who sit...", and at that time amr bin um maktum, the blinde man was sitting behind the prophet. He said, "o allah's messenger! What is your order for me (as regards to the above verse) as i am a blind man?" So instead dof teh above verse, the following verse was revealed: Not equal are those believers who sit at home except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame etc.) and those who strive and fight in the cause of allah." (4:95) sahih al bukhari, volume 6, page 480 Did the prophet muhammad do this himself? This hadith does not mention that the angel gabriel, who brough him the revelation ofthe qur'aan intervened at all to change the verse. In another book which was published in 1980 A.D. we read a story of how the prophet muhammad changed a verse of the qur'aan to please the idolatrous tribes in mecca. "Regarding the rumour of quraish's acceptance of islam historians have mentioned the event of "gharaniq." According to them it so happened that once the holy prophet confused while reciting surah al-najm (chapter 53). When he reached on the following verses: "Have ye thought upon al-lat and al-uzza, and al-manat, the third, the other". (53:19-20) He recited: "These idols are respected and honoured, and their intercession is acceptable." Afterwards the holy prophet recited the whole chapte of al-najm and in the end performed "sijdah al-talawat". The non-believers (idolaters) of mecca who were present on that occasion also performed the "sidjad" and spread the rumour that muhammad (sallalahu alaihi wa sallam) accepted their idols. The next day when angel gabriel came to the holy prophet and heard the chapter al-najm from him he pointed out the mistake and told him that part was not a revelation. Muhammad the final messenger, dr. majid ali khan, idarah-i adabiyat-i delli, india, 1980 A.D., pages 86-87 THE QURAN HAS MISSING CHAPTERS. There were two chapters collected when the qur'aan was being compiled which were not added. Ubay presented a chpater called "suwratul khaal". "Khaal" translates as "maternal uncle, mole or beauty spot." The second chapter that was missing was called "suwratul hafd," which is also known as suwratul qunut. Suwratul qunut is more commonly known now a days as "dua (prayer) qunut" which is found at the end of certain qur'aans. Any arab you meet will be familiar with this duaa'. The word hafd translates as "pace, grandson." These two chapters were supposedly omitted from the qur'aan by the caliph uthmaan. Another known chaptere to have been omitted is called suwra an nurayn which can be found in its entirely in the orginal arabic in Dabistan-i mazahib by mirza muhsin, page 220-221. Many shi'ites say that it was part of the qur'aan and that it was recited to the prophet muhammad by the angel gabriel and that it was omitted by those who opposed the successorship of amiyrul mu'miniyn ali after his death. In the book entitled "kitabuz zakat" it states that at basra, abu musa ashari said to 500 reciters of the qur'aan: "Verily wwe used to recite a surah which in length and sharpness, we used to compare with one of the subuhat and i have forgotten it except that i have preserved from it the words "o ye who.." (christian reply to muslim objectiosn, page 58, w. st. clair tisdall, light of life, austria, 1980 A.D.) the qur'aan has missing verses. There are cited reporst of certain verses which were thought to be omitted from the qur'an. One in particular is called the "verse of stoning" which reads: "And the old man and the old woman if they have committed adultery, then stone them both assuredly." (the collection of the qur'an, john burton, cambridge university press, london, 1977 pg 65-66) The hadith collection by ibn majah narrates that "aisha the proophet muhammad's third wife, said that the verse of stoning was in her care. However the piece of paper containing this verse was undere neath her bed and after the prophet muhammads death was consumed by an animal. Thus this verse was omitted altogether from the qur'an when the qur'an was collected to be made into a a book." The second confirmation of this verse is found in the hadith book called mishkatul masabih, volume 3, page 912: "Abdullah b. abbas reported that umar b. khattab sat on the pulpit of allah's messenger and said: verily allah sent muhammad with truth and he sent down the book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah's messenger awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and aftefr him wer also awarded the punishment of stoning. I am afraid that with the lapse of time the people may forget it and may say: we do not find the punishment of stoning in the book of allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in allah's book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or if there is pregnancy, or a confession." (Also refer to kitabul hudud and abwabun nikah for other traditions on the "verse of stoning"). This is just two of the many versions of the "verse of stoning." If the prophet muhammad recited it only one way, how is it that there are so many versions? It is up to you to decide which of the following is correct. In hadith transmitted from ubayy it states: 1. "The prophet said, "take it from me god has now appointed a way for women: the virgin with the virgin, one hundred strokes and a years banishment; the non-virgin with the non-virgin, one hundred strokes and stoning" (risalah, page 20) 2. "The descent of inspiration (wahy) was troublesome to the prophet. His face would look ashen in colour. One day inspiration came down on him and he showed the usual signs of distress. When he recovered he said, "take it from me! god had appointed a way for the women: the non-virgin with the non_virgin, one hundred strokes and death by stoneing; the virgin, one hundred and banishment for a year." (ahmed b. al husain al baihaqi,al sunan al kubra, 10 volumes, haideerabad, 1925-38/1344-57, volume 8, page 210) 3. "We could tell when the inspiration descended upon the prophet. When the words , "or until god appoint a way", were revealed, and the inspirationascended, the prophet said: take heed! god has now appointed the way: the virgin with the virgin, one hundred strokes and banishment for a year; the non-virgin with the non-virgin, one hundred strokes and death by stoning." (sulaiman b. da'ud al tayalisi, sunan, haideraban, 1904/1321, page 79) 4. Umar declared, I fear that with the passage of time some will say, we do not find stoning in the book of god, and will neglect a divine injunction revealed by god. Stoning is a just claim against teh non-virgin fornicator when valid proof is brought, or pregnancy occur or confession is made. We used to recit it the saikh and the saikha, when they fornicate stone them outright. The messenger of god stoned and we have stoned. (ali b. abdullah, teacher of bukhari) (The collection of the qur'an, john burton, cambridge university press, london, 1977 pages 74,75,79) Can this be considered a "reliable chain of transmitters," if there are so many versions? Of course not. Besides there being evidence of the actual verse of stoning there are also a few hadith which speak of the calip umar referring to the verse of stoning: Ibn abbas reports a sermon by umar bin al khaatib in the course of which he said, Men! stoning is a penalty laid down by god. Do not neglect it. It is in the book of god and the sunna of your prophet. The messenger of god stone; abu bakr stoned, and i have stoned. (tayalisi, page 6) Umar announced from the prophet muhammad's pulpit: "god sent muhammad with the truth and revealed to him the book. Part of what god revealed was the stoninig verse. We used to recite it and we memorized it. The prophet stoned and we have stoned after him. I fear that with the passage of time somew will say, "we do not find stoning in the book of god", and will therefore neglect a divine junction on which god revealed. Stoning is a just claim (baihaqi, volume 8, page 210.) Malik reports that when umar returned from the pilgrimage he addressed the people of medina: "Men the sunna has been established, the obligatory duties imposed and you have been left in no uncertainty. Beware lest you neglect the stoning verse on account of those who say, we do not find two penalties in the book of god. The prophet stoned, and we have stoned. By him who holds my soul in his hand! But that men would say, umar has added to the book of god. I would write it in with my own hand, the saikh and the saikha, when they fornicate, stone them outright. (muwatta, k. al hudu; cf. fath, volume 12, page 119) First of all why are there so many versions of this same verse? If the caliph umar knew that the verse was omitted from the qur'aan why didn't he add it to the qur'aan? Also how is it that a verse which was committed to memory by the prophet muhammad's companions was able to be removed from the qur'aan because a goat at it? Why wasn't this verse memorized as well? And why did allah allow this to happen to his holy book and muhamma'ds faithful companions? If direct quotes of the verse and hadiths which verify the existencwe of this verse is not enough, there are also hadiths which state which chapter of the qur'aan the "verse of stoning" belonged to. Ubayy asked zirr b. hubais, how many verses do you recite in suratul ahzab? Zirr replied "seventy-three verses. Ubayy asked if that was all. I have seen it. He said , when it was the same length as baqara. It contained the words "the saikh and saikha, when they fornicate, stone them outright, as an exemplary punishment from god. God is mighty wise. (baihaqi, volume 8, pages 210-211). Suratul ahzab was identified as the sura originially containing the stoning verse, and in addition to ubayy and abu musa, "aisha reports that suratul ahzab used to be recited in the lifetime of the prophet muhammad as having 200 verses, but when the caliph uthman had the qur'an compiled, all they could find was its present length. Suratul ahzab has only 73 verses in today's qur'an." (Christian reply to muslim objections, pages 58-59, w. st. clair tisdall, light of life, austria, 1980 A.D.) Why hasn't any of the caliphs been put on the spot for omitting verses from the qur'aan? Did allah or muhammad grant them this permission? If so where can this be found in the qur'aan? This cannot be blamed on the prophet muhammad for he was not alive. This can only be blamed on his successors who compiled and edited the qur'aan. These haadiths involve the names of the first three successors ofthe prophet muhammad who are venerated by the orthodox sunni muslims, because they were caliphs. Why is the fact never published, discussed, or brought to public view that they were involved in the omission of "the verse of stoning"? |
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Mansoor_ali
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To owen.grandison Topic:History of the Quran's Compilation and Preservation Allah Almighty Said:
Islamic Awareness' Detailed and Thorough Responses with captured images of the earliest manuscripts! http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/ |
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Mansoor_ali
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To owen.grandison Topic:Was The Bible Same As We Have In Our Hands Today? The basis of evaluation of any had�th (story or report) in Islam of any text concerned particularly with religion is based on the study of matn (i.e., text) and its isnad (i.e., chain of narration).
The Christian 'had�th' is composed of matn (text) but no isnad (chain of narration). Without isnad, as cAbdullah b. al-Mubarak said, anyone can claim anything saying that it is coming from the authority. The authorities in the case of Christian 'had�th' are the Apostles and later day Church Fathers. But how can one be sure that the Christian 'had�th' is not mixed with falsehood without the proper isnad and its verification? The Old Testament, to certain extent and the New Testament in toto lack chain of narration. When this argument was put forward, the Christian missionary Jochen Katz wrote:
Missionaries when cornered try to wiggle out of the argument by calling names. According to Katz, the Islamic argument of using the chain of narration, i.e., isnad, is 'bogus' because the New Testament and major part of Old Testament lacks it and above all it is a Muslim argument. By calling the Islamic argument of isnad 'bogus' Katz thought that he is already refuted it. Unfortunately, the Orientalists like Bernard Lewis who read this 'bogus' Islamic tradition and compares it with the Christian scholarship say that:
So, after all this Islamic science of had�th, called 'bogus' by Katz, was so advanced that its Christian counterparts were far far away from its sophistication. Futher where does it sophistication lie?
If the Muslim traditions have been bogus, how come the Jews did not understand this and went on to use the great works composed by Muslims? Saadia Gaon, the famous Jewish linguist, says:
Guillaume informs us in his preface of the book The Legacy Of Islam:
It turns out that the same tradition which Katz addressed
as 'bogus' result in the exegesis of his own scriptures, the Old Testament. This document is divided into the following:
Until 1959, the Ethiopic Church was under the jurisdiction of the head of Coptic Church. Hence it is not surprising that its canon of Scripture should parallel in some respects that of the Coptic Church.
Bruce Metzger in his book The Canon Of The New Testament: Its Origin, Significance & Development elaborates more on the books accepted by Ethiopic Church. The'broader' Canon of Ethiopic New Testament consists of the following thirty five books:
Let us also not forget the Syriac Churches which used to deal with Diatesseron, the four-in-one Gospel, introduced by Tatian which was read in the Syriac Churches for quite some time before it was replaced by Peshitta. Peshitta has again a different number of Books in the New Testament.
Peshitta is still followed by the Christians in the sourthern state of Kerala in India.
To make the issue clearer, we are here dealing with different number of books of New Testament followed by different churches all over the world. These are not the different translations of the Bible, the argument which Christian missionaries use to brush the problem under the carpet. Calling another church heretical is not going to work the problem out because there was no single book right from the beginning of Christianity which constituted the New Testament as we would see later, inshallah. The New Testament as we see today, depends upon the Church again(!), is a product of centuries worth of metamorphosis. Under "Canon of the New Testament" the Catholic Encyclopedia says:
So, the great Church tradition has not made up her mind on the Bible. Now this would be big enough problem for the Christian missionaries to ruminate, inshallah. Let us now go into the issue of what the Apostolic Fathers refer to during their time. 2. Church Tradition
& Apostolic Fathers Bruce M Metzger, a noted authority on the New Testament, analyzing the Apostolic Fathers viz., Clement of Rome, Ignatius, the Didache, fragments of Papias, Barnabas, Hermas of Rome, and the so-called 2 Clement concludes the following:
The Didache is a short manual or moral instruction and Church practice. The Church history writer Eusebius and Athanasius even considered to be on the fringe of the New Testament Canon[18]. Assigning the composition of Didache has ranged from first century to fourth century by the scholars, but most of them prefer to assign it in the first half of the second century[19]. Metzger summarizes the book as:
Epistle of Barnabas is a theological tract. Both Clement of Alexandria and Origen valued the work highly and attributed its composition Barnabas, the companion and co-worker of the apostle Paul. Metzger summarizes the position of Barnabas concerning the scripture as the following.
The So-Called Second Epistle Of Clement This work is not the genuine work of Clement of Rome. This is regarded as an early Christian sermon. The style of this work is different from that of 1 Clement. Both date and composition of this work are difficult to determine. It was probably written around 150 CE. Metzger summarizes the contents of this work as:
After studying the writings of all the Apostolic Fathers, Bruce Metzger concludes that:
We have evidence of the spotty development and treatment
of the writings later regarded as the New Testament in the second and third centuries
CE. Gradually written Gospels, and collections of epistles, different ones in different
regions, became to be more highly regarded. Now when the Church tradition finally started to make up her mind on compiling the New Testament various lists of books in the Canons of the Bible were drawn. Bruce Metzger gives the following list of the Canons of the Bible drawn at different times in the 'western' Church. Please note that we still do not have the great deal of idea about how many lists were drawn in the Eastern Churches such as Coptic and Ethiopic. The following are the canons drawn at various points of time in the Church history. To complete the thoughts about how the New Testament evolved, a brief survey of early lists of the books of the New Testament is necessary. The list is taken from Appendix IV of Bruce Metzger's The Canon Of The New Testament: Its Origin, Significance & Development[27].
The earliest exact reference to the 'complete' New
Testament as we now know it was in the year 367 CE, in a letter by Athanasius. This
did not settle the matter. Varying lists continued to be drawn up by different church
authorities as can be seen from above.
We will deal more with the individual books (i.e.,
Hebrews, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, James, Jude, Revelation) later, inshallah.
Furthermore, Clement of Alexandria had a very 'open'
canon, i.e., he did not mind using the materials of pagans, 'heretics' and other
Christian literature.[33] It is worthwhile reminding here that we have already seen
different set of books in Ethiopic and Coptic Church.
After reading all this, does not the Muslim position
of the corruption of the Bible hold water? And of course, again which Bible manuscript
is inspired?
Now if you do not know what the "original reading" is, then there is no point talking about 'believing' in what is supposed to be the "original" reading. So, this is the great Christian Church tradition which cannot even produce two identical manuscripts! Furthermore on "original" reading one can say that since there are no original manuscripts, there is not point talking about "original" reading at all. This search for "original" reading would be a guess work or 'consensus'. Indeed the Acts of Apostles has earned the notoriety for the variant readings.
Apart from the notorious variation, we also have the problem of which text is the original text. Since we do not know which one is original, the guess work in pressed into service. This is one such example of guess work. And how come guess work leads to truth? We have already seen that the there is no original document of the Bible available to us to verify its inerrancy doctrine. Concerning the New Testament documents The Interpreter's Dictionary Of The Bible confirms that:
So, the Qur'an in this aspect is far more better
placed than the Bible with all the Qiraa'a associated with it clearly listed with
detailed chain of narrations going back to the Companions of the Prophet(P)
who in turn learnt the Qur'an from the Prophet(P) himself. Oecolampadius in 1531 under Wurttemberg Confession declared that while all 27 books should be received, the Apocalypse (Revelation), James, Jude, 2 Peter 2 and 3 John should not be compared to the rest of the books.[40] Early in his career, Erasmus (d. 1536) doubted that Paul was the author of Hebrews, and James of the epistle bearing the name. He also questioned the authorship of 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, and Jude. The style of Revelation precludes it from being written by the author of the Fourth Gospel.[41] The same four books are labeled 'Apocrypha' in a Bible from Hamburg in 1596. In Sweden, beginning in 1618, the Gustavus Adolphus Bible labels the four dubious books as 'Apocryphal New Testament.' This arrangement lasted for more than a century.[42] Conclusions
If Christianity has got the biographies of the people who transmitted their New Testament or Old Testament as well as their traditions, it would compete with the Islamic science of had�th. Alas, with no isnad, who is going to believe in their Bible and what is in it? And as the illustrious teacher of Imaam Bukhari had said:
The lack of isnad and people drawing different Canons of the Bible seem to be the problem of people saying whatever they wished. Any one would claim anything and the Bible canon seems to reflect precisely that. And look how bogus the missionary argument turned out to be! A Few Questions As Muslims we are obliged to ask:
And if Christian missionaries cannot answer these question, there is no point calling the Bible as a reliable document. Therefore, an unreliable document is worth not calling a 'Scripture'. Other Articles Related To The Textual Reliability Of The Bible
References [1] Suhaib Hasan, An Introduction To The Science Of Had�th, 1995, Darussalam Publishers, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, p. 11. [2] Bernard Lewis, Islam In History, 1993, Open Court Publishing, pp.104-105. [3] W Montgomery Watt, What Is Islam?, 1968, Longman, Green and Co. Ltd., pp. 124-125. [4] Henry Malter, Saadia Gaon: His Life And Works, 1921, The Jewish Publication Society of America, Philadelphia, pp. 39-40. [5] Alfred Guillaume, The Legacy Of Islam, 1931, Oxford, p. ix. [6] Bruce M Metzger & Michael D Coogan (Ed.), Oxford Companion To The Bible, 1993, Oxford University Press, Oxford & New York, pp. 79 (Under 'Bible'). [7] Ibid. [8] Ibid. [9] Ibid. [10] Bruce M Metzger, The Canon Of The New Testament: Its Origin, Significance & Development, 1997, Clarendon Press, Oxford, p. 225. [11] Metzger, Oxford Companion To The Bible, Op.Cit, p. 79. [12] Metzger, The Canon Of The New Testament: Its Origin, Significance & Development, Op.Cit, pp. 227-228. [13] Ibid., p. 219. [14] Ibid., p. 220. [15] The Catholic Encyclopedia Online Edition. [16] Metzger, The Canon Of The New Testament: Its Origin, Significance & Development, Op.Cit, p. 43. [17] Ibid., p. 49. [18] Ibid., p. 49. [19] Ibid., p. 50. [20] Ibid., p. 51. [21] Ibid., pp. 55-56. [22] Ibid., pp. 58-59. [23] Ibid., pp. 62-63. [24] Ibid., p. 67. [25] Ibid., pp. 71-72. [26] Ibid., pp. 72-73. [27] Ibid., pp. 305-315. [28] The Catholic Encyclopedia Online Edition. [29] Metzger, The Canon Of The New Testament: Its Origin, Significance & Development, Op.Cit, pp. 187-188. [30] Ibid., p. 188. [31] Ibid. [32] Ibid. [33] Ibid., pp.130-135. [34] George Arthur Buttrick (Ed.), The Interpreter's Dictionary Of The Bible, Volume 4, 1962 (1996 Print), Abingdon Press, Nashville, pp. 594-595 (Under Text, NT). [35] George Arthur Buttrick (Ed.), The Interpreter's Dictionary Of The Bible, Volume 1, pp. 41 (Under "Acts of the Apostles"). [36] Ibid., p. 599 (Under "Text, NT'). [37] Metzger, The Canon Of The New Testament: Its Origin, Significance & Development, Op.Cit, p. 273. [38] Ibid., p. 243. [39] Ibid., pp. 241-242. [40] Ibid., p. 244. [41] Ibid., p. 241. [42] Ibid., pp. 244-245. [43] Ahmad von Denffer, cUl�m al-Qur'an, 1994, The Islamic Foundation, p. 134. |
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seekshidayath
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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seekshidayath
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[QUOTE=owen.grandison]In another book which was published in 1980 A.D. we read a story of how the prophet muhammad changed a verse of the qur'aan to please the idolatrous tribes in mecca.
"Regarding the rumour of quraish's acceptance of islam historians have mentioned the event of "gharaniq." According to them it so happened that once the holy prophet confused while reciting surah al-najm (chapter 53). When he reached on the following verses: "Have ye thought upon al-lat and al-uzza, and al-manat, the third, the other". (53:19-20) He recited: "These idols are respected and honoured, and their intercession is acceptable." Its a refutation . All false
Afterwards the holy prophet recited the whole chapte of al-najm and in the end performed "sijdah al-talawat". The non-believers (idolaters) of mecca who were present on that occasion also performed the "sidjad" and spread the rumour that muhammad (sallalahu alaihi wa sallam) accepted their idols. The next day when angel gabriel came to the holy prophet and heard the chapter al-najm from him he pointed out the mistake and told him that part was not a revelation. Acc to books of hadith - Ibn `Abbas said, "The Prophet prostrated upon reciting An-Najm and the Muslims, idolators, Jinns and mankind who were present prostrated along with him. There was nothing like spread of rumour, or gabriel pointing a mistake. No where in Qur'an or hadith , will you find such statement.
Muhammad the final messenger, dr. majid ali khan, idarah-i adabiyat-i delli, india, 1980 A.D., pages 86-87 I have n't read this person. But i see that he has n;t produced any source, from where he has taken this. Obviously, he was not present during the days of Prophet, there must be some source na ! Rest part of your post, when time permits.Before that i wish you to answer
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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