Gay muslims?

So should the gay muslim deny what he or she feels naturally even if the feeling is not a choice?

Gibbs wrote: Now the basis of the religionist argument is religious mixed with biology. One, God made male and female to procreate and populate the planet anything opposing that is a choice.

Actually, for us Muslims - the basis of rejecting Homosexuality as acceptable behavior is because Allah said so. Full stop. However, as humans we make attempts to find reasons and logic to convince either ourselves or others as to why. Or to contemplate upon supposed reasons. . . natural curiosity.

The problem with Freewill especially in this case does not give into account psychological and emotional phenomena that may happen naturally. There is no proof that homosexuality is purely a choice as someone rejecting heterosexual norms.

There seems to have been a recent trend in which Science looks for biological or genetic reasons to explain every behavior of ours. I don't think that every tendency of ours has a genetic or biological reason. The recent trend in the West seems to be finding excuses to excuse bad or abnormal behavior as "Aww, its not your fault. Its your DNA". And when you start thinking "its not in your hands" you fall back on the excuse rather than taking responsibility for your actions. And I'm not just referring to homosexuality, at least its doesn't effect others - but other actions like alcoholism, compulsive stealing (whats it called again ?) etc etc.

We as human beings have the tendency and ability to develop a liking to almost anything. Developing personal preferences does not always make it natural or biological. If so, then what about Serial Killers or Rapists who have the urge to inflict harm on others & derive pleasure from it ? There so many kinds of perversions existing today - I am sure all of them claim "they cannot help it". I guess Paedophiles cannot help bieng attracted to kids either . . . lets excuse them too.

I am not finding excuses for all these perverted behaviours - simply saying that the theory "if its natural & biological - its okay and not your fault" is faulty.

If there are young, old, gay muslim men perhaps those internal feelings (biological or psychological) are just simply a natural state. Perhaps one could pray, but to tell someone to pray to "get the gay out of them" is adversive logic. Because in essence you are telling them to deny part of themselves.

Reminds me of a bumper sticker I once saw "Sometimes telling someone to "Be yourself" is the worse advise you can give them".

Not all "parts of ourselves" are to be embraced. Sometimes we have to deny part of ourselves or aspects of our personality, because its simply not right. (Again, not only referring to Homosexuality, just saying that the argument doesn't sit well with me.)

BTW even according to the Kinsey Scale (often quoted in reference to homosexuality), which rates sexuality on a scale of 0 (exclusively heterosexual) to 6 (exclusively homosexual) - people are seldom a perfect 6 or a perfect 0 ! The scale suggests that we all have the "ability" and "tendency" to be attracted to the same gender. Which is why according to sexologists even homosexuals may fantasize or have urges (dreams) towards the opposite gender - similarly heterosexuals may find aspects of the same gender . . . how to put it delicately . . . arousing.

To me, this seems to suggest that we are not "born" Gay or Straight - we "develop" sexual preferences along the way. And as human beings, anything of a sexual nature, can 'arouse' us - that does not necessarily mean we are homosexuals. . .

"Kinsey himself avoided and disapproved of using terms like homosexual or heterosexual to describe individuals, asserting that sexuality is prone to change over time, and that sexual behavior can be understood both as physical contact as well as purely psychological phenomena (desire, sexual attraction, fantasy)" - (forced to quote Wiki, due to an extreme attack of laziness, pls excuse the felony for once , however this is a summation from his "Kinsey Report")

My conclusion : Homosexuality is not a "biological" or "by-birth" preference - it is a preference we develop by choice, since all of us have the ... err, ability or tendency to go down that path.

No offense but it seems when Islamic law is enacted all humans being under that law do not have the 'freedom' to exercise their full human potential, that is, to truly be who they are.

Will agree to the extent that under Islamic Law - personal whims & desires take a backseat to the Law. Yes, freedom to do whatever we want is not absolute . . . and we can exercise our rights, freewill & "freedom" within certain limitations only.

However, how that leads you to think it limits human beings from exercising their "full potential" is beyond me !!! I assume that you seem to think that "being Gay" is somehow is reaching their full human potential. (Maybe as a make-up artist or cat-walk instructor on America's Next Top Model - kidding!) I think even Gays have more human potential in them than simply expressing/embracing their sexual preference . . .

Islamic Law in no way restricts human's from reaching their maximum human potentials.

So I guess my question to God is, if it is truly unethical and so wrong (wrong enough to destroy an entire people over) why has it been around so long?

Probably for the same reason that idol worship, adultery, murders, prostitution, oppression, has been around for so long. i.e. we as human beings choose to practice it.

Again, the mere existence of an act or behavior - even if it be for centuries - does not validate it.




Edited by Chrysalis - 31 December 2009 at 2:30am

Gibbs wrote:  And not just that but what about transsexual? Transgendered?

Chrysalis you wrote a lot and flattered you took time to respond, but if you don't mind let me address those important issues.