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abuayisha View Drop Down
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Points: 5105 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuayisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2010 at 11:14pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

  As far as I'm concerned all ahadith are of dubious authenticity. 
 
Really?  So, what was this all about?  A search for the truth or fun and games?  Or maybe just an attempt at smearing our faith.
 
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Reference please?  Is this an authentic hadith?

 

Originally posted by Ron Webb 

Really?  From which collection, and what does the hadith actually say?



Edited by abuayisha - 24 July 2010 at 11:18pm
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Points: 2467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2010 at 7:06am

Originally posted by abuayisha abuayisha wrote:

Really?  So, what was this all about?  A search for the truth or fun and games?  Or maybe just an attempt at smearing our faith.

It's a search for the truth, specifically the truth of fais's claim that Muhammad said that men should use a miswak to beat their wives.  I am confident that there is no such hadith.  It is an invention by Muslim apologists.

I have more than a thousand posts on this forum.  I have debated a great many issues with you and many other regulars.  I am disappointed that after all this time you would accuse me of "an attempt at smearing our faith".  I am simply judging your faith by its own standards.  The Quran advises men to beat their wives, and several hadith show that Muhammad at least permitted it.  Muhammad himself struck Aisha hard enough to cause pain (see Sahih Muslim, 4:2127).  You can make what you will of that, but it is the truth.  It is not a "smear".
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fais View Drop Down
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Hello Ron
 
 
The hadith which i mention is Authentic,I knew you gonna comeup with somthing new when u asked about the authenticity.
 
you are not considering the fact that in islam it is advised to the man to give the woman so many chances even though she is in to something bad.
 
A question RON: how many of these steps you will follow as a spiritual jew or christian after you find your wife into adultery.
 
Please answer this or i will consider you a coward and a man of low calibre.
 
I have just one answer to you
 
Lakum dinukum walyadeen
 
Your faith with you,and mine with
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by fais - 25 July 2010 at 7:54am
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Points: 2467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2010 at 8:23am

Originally posted by fais fais wrote:

The hadith which i mention is Authentic,I knew you gonna comeup with somthing new when u asked about the authenticity.

Fais, I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are merely mistaken.  Please don't pursue this unless you can come up with some evidence that the hadith is genuine.

Quote A question RON: how many of these steps you will follow as a spiritual jew or christian after you find your wife into adultery.

The steps that I would follow would be to have a serious talk with my wife, and try to understand what is wrong with our marriage.  If she truly wishes to be with another man instead of me then we would arrange for a (hopefully amicable) divorce.  That would be the plan, anyway.  I am no saint, and may say and do some things that I would not be proud of later, but I can guarantee you that I would never, under any circumstances, hit her.
 
Quote Please answer this or i will consider you a coward and a man of low calibre.

IMHO any man who would beat his wife is a coward and a man of low calibre.
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fais View Drop Down
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Hello Ron

First of all when i say hitting i mean hitting so lightly as if she will not feel anything.now u take it how u want to.
 
second: we are not talking about a woman who is declaring that she wants to be with another man,or she want a divorce.
 
here we talking about a woman who want to be in adultery and yet want to reap the benefits of her husband's house and expenses given by him.
 
you are protraying your self in such a way as if you are  the scholar of hadith science by just mentioning one web site again again,let me tell you there are so many false webite made by jews and christians and also shias which gives a wrong image of islam.
 
You taking advantage of the fact that we are not scholars and have not read many hadith.i have seen the debates of ahmed deedath and christian preist,believe me they dont find a single point valid against islam when they talk in front of knowledgeable scholars.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by fais - 25 July 2010 at 8:41am
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abuayisha View Drop Down
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"Muhammad himself struck Aisha hard enough to cause pain"
 
Struck or hit is not an appropriate translation of the word used in this hadith - in the sense of beating/hitting/ or spousal abuse of his wife.  The Prophet of Allah never did this, and Muslims are well advised to follow his sunnah in this respect.  Overall the treatment of women worldwide - including Muslim countries is shameful.  Here in America spousal abuse happens every 7 seconds! 
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Points: 2467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2010 at 7:19pm

I'll take your word for it, abuayisha.  What is a better translation, in your opinion?  What did Muhammad do to her chest that caused pain?  Or is the word "pain" also a mistranslation?
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abuayisha View Drop Down
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Points: 5105 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuayisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2010 at 9:12pm

Well Ron, "pain" here is not the issue, but having an understanding that spousal abuse is not a directive from our faith, although granted many women are still mistreated, and if, as stated in an authentic hadith, a woman who mistreated a cat is punished by God; surely those who abuse and mistreat their wives will also be held accountable.
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