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Heaven and hell |
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rami 
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 Posted: 26 August 2005 at 8:59pm |
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Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem
wa alaikum assalam
Jazak allah for reminding me of that hadith, it is absolutely ture
and i think it was bad wording on my part if i implied that Allah was
not turning to those people who simply said la ilaha illah llah through
some aspect of his mercy. My point was that Allah himself was pointing
out other atributes than mercy for a reason and we need to look at and
understand why that is. I think it was out of his mercy that Allah turned to this group through his atributes of Power, Majesty, Supremacy and
Greatness becouse
as we know through other ahadith and the Quran Rasul allah is a mercy
for all the worlds and it is he who is interceding for them. Edited by rami |
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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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rami
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Posted: 26 August 2005 at 9:36pm |
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Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem
wa alaikum asalam Hope, can i asume your a sister ? 
al-Ma'idah 5:82 Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.
Lo! those who disbelieve and turn from the way of Allah and then die disbelievers, Allah surely will not pardon them. 47:34
We
have another verse which says the only sin Allah will not forgive is
Idolatry do they contradict each other? no, you can not use the Quran
to contradict another verse in the Quran or hadith this is a basic rule
of Tafsir. They both came from rasul allah. There are many types of
disbelievers some believe in Allah but not rasul allah while others
dont believe in Allah at all.
How does that contradict those who said la illaha illah llah will be taken out of hell, they are in hell ie losers.
Does the hadith i Quote say anything to contradict any of the above? no those who said la illah illah llah will be taken out of hell. You can not use one hadith agaisnt another hadith or Quran against
another verse in the Quran rasul allah did not contradict himself or
what Allah has said. Do you think even a second in hell is easy those who didnt believe
in muhamad will be severly punished in hell but that does not contradict the
hadith and verse i Quoted, I think rasul allah knows the shahadah....La
illaha illah llah Muhamad rasul allah. now if a muslim was to simply
say la illaha illah llah without muhamad rasul allah he would be a
kafir so that last part in the hadith can in no way be talking about
muslims. The hadith itself is a sahih hadith. Regarding your second post i have clarified that in my above post. Edited by rami |
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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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hope
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Joined: 15 April 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Posted: 27 August 2005 at 1:39am |
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You know very well that I am talking about rejecting faith. You cannot obey Allah (swt) if you reject his PROPHETS. I don't know of any muslims that don't believe in Prophet Mohammed. It's a question of shaddah. Not whether not someone who ALREADY accepts shaddah pays zakat every year or not! Big difference. If there is a question-- what is said in the Qu'ran trumps what is in the hadith. Not that they contradict but the Qu'ran is the direct word of Allah (swt) whereas the hadith are NOT. They can even vary in the degree to the certainity of what they contain. The answer is SO clear in the Qu'ran and you are trying to piece together something from the hadith to support your very assumption that the kaffir will be in jennah. Kaffir in hell eternally. The hadith that you keep referring to is about muslims. ONly musims that have to be purified will be sent to hell before they can enter jennah. It does not apply to kaffirs. Kaffirs go to hell and stays there. Anyway, Since I can't do ijtihad and you can't either I have to go by what scholars read from this. Please read this and if you find anything from another scholar that is different please post here. Thanks. Questions? - [email protected] This means that anybody could be in
Edited by hope |
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hope
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Posted: 27 August 2005 at 2:05am |
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The Jews are cursed in the Qu'ran here are three different interpretaions: 005.064
The Jews are the transgressors they reject the authority of Allah (swt): �O people of the Scripture! (Jews and Christians): Why do you disbelieve in the Ayaat of Allaah, [the Verses about Prophet Muhammad present in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] while you (yourselves) bear witness (to their truth)? �O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa� (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa� of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa�), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)� al-Maa'idah
al-Bayyinah 98:6 �And verily, you will find them (the Jews) the greediest of mankind for life and (even greedier) than those who ascribe partners to Allaah (and do not believe in Resurrection � Magians, pagans, and idolaters). Everyone of them wishes that he could be given a life of a thousand years. But the grant of such life will not save him even a little from (due) punishment. And Allaah is All-Seer of what they do�[al-Baqarah 2:96]
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hope
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Posted: 27 August 2005 at 2:07am |
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and yes |
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Nausheen
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Posted: 27 August 2005 at 8:43am |
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Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim, The basis of faith is that one believes in Allah, his messengers (all of them, excluding none), His angels and His books (all of them, excluding none). Those who have any variation in their faith to the above are not Muslim, and their religion is not Islam. As it is said in surah Imran verse 19, if one has a religion other than Islam it shall not be accepted of him (not actual translation). It is also confirmed by scholars that this verse abrogates those verses of the Quran that say "any who believes in allah is a muslim". So we should not deny that Jews and christians recieved the word of Allah, and they worshiped Allah as their Lord, but their religion is not complete or perfect, after it has become incumbent on mankind to follow another book and another prophet. We cannot say even for a kafir if he is going to heaven or hell, but sure we should know what are the basic requirements of this religion (ike Islam). Maa salaama, Nausheen |
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<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
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rami
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Posted: 28 August 2005 at 6:52pm |
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Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem
assalamu alaikum
This is not corect, most certainly you can obey parts of allahs message and ignore others a basic example is that we believe in the 10 commandments and so do jews and christians. Any one among this group who follows them is obeying Allah in this respect. Otherwise i dont see at all what you are saying, rejecting islam does not mean the person is not obeying Allah outright.
The
idea that the Quran Trumps ahadith is plain wrong we take both
together, the hadith i quoted you is from sahih bukhari there is no
question about the authenticity of the hadith and you can not reject it
simply becouse you dont like it. When you pary and say the
shahadah do you simply say La illaha illah llah or La illaha illah llah
muhamad rasul allah ?
Your argument is based on asumptions and ignoreing certain evidence, a scholar looks at all the evidence not just part of it, dont simplify my argument to jews christians [edited] these are just lables there are many people out there who do not fit into this conveniant mould. There are 7 levels of jahanam do you also know who is going in which level? i think you should read sister nausheens post carfully Edited by rami |
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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Nausheen
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Posted: 28 August 2005 at 9:33pm |
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Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,
The following is taken from: On the validity of all religions in the thought of ibn Al-'Arabi and Emir 'Abd al-Qadir by Nuh Ha Mim Keller 5. The Fate of Non-Muslims in the AfterlifeThe reason that contemporary writers affected by the writings of Gunon and Schuon, such as Chittick and Gai Eaton (or such as Martin Lings, Titus Burckhardt etc.), seem to want the universal validity of all religions at any price, even to the extent of attributing it to masters like Muhyiddin ibn al-`Arabi ("in principle") or Emir `Abd al-Qadir ("he protected the Christians against massacre by taking them into his own home because he understood" [as if other scholars considered massacring them halal]) would seem to be the emotive impalatability of followers of other religions going to hell. Where is the mercy? Would Allah put someone in the hellfire merely for worshipping in another religion besides Islam? This question is answered by traditional Islam according to two possibilities: (1) There are some peoples who have not been reached by the message of the Prophet of Islam (Allah bless him and give him peace) that we must worship the One God alone, associating nothing else with Him. Such people are innocent, and will not be punished no matter what they do. Allah says in surat al-Isra', "We do not punish until We send a Messenger" (Qur'an 17:15). These include, for example, Christians and others who lived in the period after the spread of the myth of Jesus godhood, until the time of the prophet Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace), who renewed the call to pure monotheism. The great Muslim scholar, Imam Ghazali, includes in this category those who have only been reached with a distorted picture of the Messenger of Islam (Allah bless him and give him peace), presumably including many people in the West today who know nothing about Allah's religion but newspaper stories about Ayatollahs and mad Muslim bombers. Is it within such people's capacity to believe? In Ghazali's view, such people are excused until after they have had an opportunity to learn the undistorted truth about Islam (Ghazali: "Faysal al-tafriqa," Majmu'a rasa'il al-Imam al-Ghazali, 3.96). This of course does not alter our own obligation as Muslims to reach them with the da'wa. (2) A second group of people consists of those who turn away from God's divine message of Islam, rejecting the command to make their worship God's alone; whether because of blindly imitating the religion of their ancestors, or for some other reason. These are people to whom God has sent a prophetic messenger and reached with His message, and to whom He has given hearing and an intellect with which to grasp it but after all this, persist in associating others with Allah, either by actually worshipping another, or by rejecting the laws brought by His messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace), which associates their own customs with His prerogative to be worshipped as He directs. Such people have violated God's rights, and have accepted to go to hell, which is precisely what His messengers have warned them of, so they have no excuse: "Truly, Allah does not forgive that any be associated with Him; but He forgives what is less than that to whomever He wills" (Qur'an 4:48). In either case, Allah's mercy exists, though for non-Muslims unreached by the message, it is a question of divine amnesty for their ignorance, not a confirmation of their religions validity. It is worth knowing the difference between these two things, for one's eternal fate depends on it. Hope this helps, insha allah. Maa salaama, Nausheen |
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<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
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Asalaam-o-Alaikum
to your first question!