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Muslim75 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Muslim75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2014 at 1:04pm

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Edited by Muslim75 - 09 January 2015 at 12:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power of GOD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2014 at 6:13am
Originally posted by Muslim75 Muslim75 wrote:

Originally posted by Power of GOD Power of GOD wrote:

Originally posted by Muslim75 Muslim75 wrote:

Please stop quoting the Bible.
 
If you wish to be pertinent, you must refrain from quoting the Bible. Muslims do not believe in the authenticity of the Bible that is read today. Muslims do not even believe in the authenticity of Bible kept in christian institutions, if any, even if they were written only a few centuries after Jesus. We Muslims believe in the authenticity of the Qur'an up to this day, as mentioned in the Qur'an itself, and of which the scholars have also established evidence.
 
It is hard to discuss with Christians:
 
1/ for the irrelevance of rejecting the prophethood of Muhammad (saw), who is holy and heavenly
2/ for the irrelevance of rejecting the prophethood of Muhammad (saw), after accepting that of Jesus (as) (and they accept, as we know, more than prophecy)
3/ For the iniquity of rejecting the prophethood of Muhammad (saw), the last of the prophets that were sent to mankind, and so it will remain to the end of time.
 
Jesus and all prophets have tremendous reverence for Muhammad (saw) as we know from the Qur'an and the hadiths on the Night Journey.
 
Christianity has no right to exist.
 
 
Muslim do not believe what God said to his Prophets and THEY simply believe this because Muhammad said so his followers did not even compose the Quran properly after Muhammad passed away.
 

When Muhammad died in 632 CE, the Qur�an had not been recorded and collected into a book. Instead, Muslims memorized large portions of the Qur'an. This was especially true of people who knew Muhammad in person. The Qur�an means to recite. It is possible that some of the verses had been recorded on bones, rocks, or hides before Muhammad died. Regardless, it didn�t take long for the early Muslims to decide that they needed to have the Qur�an collected into a book.

The original Qur�an was completed by 634 CE. It is important to understand that a political process is what produced the Qur�an. In 633 CE, a military battle caused 700 Muslims to be killed. A close friend of Muhammad (named Salim) that could recite a large portion of the Qur�an was killed. What would happen if all the close followers of Muhammad were killed? Early Muslims wanted to maintain the purity of the Qur�an as Muhammad had spoken it.

So the original Qur�an of 634 CE was created during the political reign of Abu Bakr. This original Qur�an came to be known as the Hafsah codex (about 10 years later when Hafsah began to maintain it). However, this most important original manuscript of the Qur�an was destroyed by Muslim leaders in 667 CE. (Hafsah was one of Muhammad's wives. She maintained the original Qur'an until her death in 667 CE. Muslim leaders wanted to destroy the original Qur'an before Hafsah died. But she refused to hand over the codex for burning. She was successful until her death [Refer to Al-Masahif 24] It is most important to ask, "Why did Hafsah not wish to have this most important original manuscript of the Qur'an to be burnt?").   

It appears that the Hafsah codex was one of the last Qur�ans to be willingly destroyed by Muslims. Since the original Qur�an was not accepted, what happened to cause such a drastic change that required the original Qur�an to be destroyed? Why wasn�t the Hafsah codex maintained since it was created (in 634 CE) within two years after Muhammad died (in 632 CE)?

The history of how the Qur�an came to be recorded comes from reliable Muslim source materials. These are called the Hadith. Problems for the Qur�an began to occur during the reign of the 3rd political leader of Islam, whose name is Uthman (644 TO 656 CE). It appears that as the Islamic faith spread with military conquest across a large area, the soldiers were reading different versions of the Qur�an. These men wondered, "Is the Qur�an truly as pure as those close to Muhammad believed and taught?"

 
Authenticity of the Qur'an is proven historically and spiritually. The christian world and the orientalists work on this ground. A Book from Allah, concerning every matter, small or great, to Muhammad (saw), peace be upon him, and his family. This is from ancient teaching.
 If Allah was alive maybe, Allah predates islam long before Muhammad existance.

History proves conclusively that before Islam came into existence, the Sabbeans in Arabia worshipped the moon-god Allah who was married to the sun-goddess. We have also seen that it was a matter of common practice to use the name of the moon-god in personal names in Muhammad's tribe. That Allah was a pagan deity in pre-Islamic times is incontestible. And so we must ask ourselves the question: why was Muhammad's God named after a pagan deity in his own tribe?

It is an undeniable fact that an Allah idol was set up at the Kabah along with all the other idols of the time. The pagans prayed towards Mecca and the Kabah because that is where their gods were stationed. It made sense to them to face in the direction of their god and pray since that is where he was. Since the idol of their moon god, Allah, was at Mecca, they prayed towards Mecca.

 It is an undeniable fact of history that before Muhammed was born, the moon god "al-Ilah" Allah had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. The first two were even named after their father. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah's shrine was located.
As Muhammad grew weary from evangelizing his new religion with little success, he was tricked by the devil into adding a verse in the Koran that commanded Muslims to pray to Allah's three pagan daughters Lat, Uzza and Manat. The pagan female trinity was immediately accepted without dissent and the passage was considered part of the revealed Koran. However some time later, Muhammad got a revelation from God that the verse should be removed. After repenting of the error, Muhammad was comforted by God. Such "after the fact corrective revelations" are very common with cults.

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 53 Surah Najm verses 19-23:

Have you considered El-Lat and El-'Uzza and Manat the third, the other? What, have you males, and He females? That were indeed an unjust division. They are naught but names yourselves have named, and your fathers; God has sent down  no authority touching them.
 
This was mentioned in the Quran there are records in the hadiths about Allah's daughters
 
 Muhammad's desire had been realised; the Quraysh accepted him. The Muslims who had fled to Abyssinia heard about this and many of them began to return to  Mecca. The Quraysh accepted Muhammad because he had, "spoken of (their) gods in splendid fashion" (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166). The Islamic explanation as to why Muhammad accepted the idols is that he desired a way to attract the Quraysh and Satan used this opportunity to put these words on Muhammad's lips:
I am not doing this to insult islam or anything I just want to know the truth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Muslim75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2014 at 2:26am

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Edited by Muslim75 - 09 January 2015 at 12:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingskid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2014 at 8:03am
Muslim75 if you don't want the Bible quoted to you, don't comment to what Christians post.  Why are you on an interfaith forum, anyway?  Obviously, Muslims quote the Quran and Christians quote the Bible, so you need to grow up and conduct yourself with intelligence and tolerance on this forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingskid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2014 at 5:21pm
Muslim75 and kodoo, as stated earlier, this forum is for interfaith discussion, not intrafaith discussion.  Obviously, you two gentlemen must have such a morbid fear and/or hatred of Christianity that you are truly unable to see beyond your own prejudices.  Thus, you will be impotent to add to the richness of a discussion about different religions, atheism, humanism, agnosticism, or whatever.  If you cannot separate your emotions from an intellectual discussion about such matters without spiraling down into a fear-driven tirade and personal attack on Christians, you risk showing your bigotry and dishonor your own religion.  Undoubtedly there are forums where you can spew your vitriol, otherwise, expect to be challenged by Christians.  We are not your punching bag, so back off.  Peace.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2014 at 9:32am
Originally posted by Muslim75 Muslim75 wrote:

One more time, don't quote the Bible, to my intent at least.
 
Quote the Holy Qur'an or the Holy Hadiths, if you want to maintain credibility. Jesus was not a king or a man of authority, and so were those who dealt with his sayings. There is no way in the 21 st century that anything from the Bible can be trusted. An additional proof for that is that there is no trace today of a book that was revealed to Jesus, from God. Allah Almighty did reveal to Jesus a book, the Gospel. But He did not wish that the Gospel be protected, preserved and kept authentic.

Muslims like to make a great fuss about how well the Quran has been preserved versus the Bible; but from that point of view, the hadith are surely the least reliable of the three sources.  Even Muslims acknowledge that they are of varying authenticity, and many of them are outright fabrications.  Why would you reject the Bible, but accept the hadith?

And regarding the authority of Jesus: don't Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet?  Doesn't that make him a "man of authority"?


Edited by Ron Webb - 24 November 2014 at 9:33am
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2014 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Originally posted by Muslim75 Muslim75 wrote:

One more time, don't quote the Bible, to my intent at least.�Quote the Holy Qur'an or the Holy Hadiths, if you want to maintain credibility. Jesus was not a king or a man of authority, and so were those who dealt with his sayings. There is no way in the 21 st century that anything from the Bible can be trusted. An additional proof for that is that there is no trace today of a book that was revealed to Jesus, from God. Allah Almighty did reveal to Jesus a book, the Gospel. But He did not wish that the Gospel be protected, preserved and kept authentic.
Muslims like to make a great fuss about how well the Quran has been preserved versus the Bible; but from that point of view, the hadith are surely the least reliable of the three sources.� Even Muslims acknowledge that they are of varying authenticity, and many of them are outright fabrications.� Why would you reject the Bible, but accept the hadith?And regarding the authority of Jesus: don't Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet?� Doesn't that make him a "man of authority"?


Ron,
the Quran and the books contained in the "Bible" like Torah, Psalm, and Gospel are God's books, His revelations, Hadith is not God's revelation rather narrations of the companions of the prophet, word of men and thus of course need to be looked differently.

As a Muslim, we are told to believe that those previous revelations were from Allah. We are also told that the Quran is the Final revelation from God and that the previous scriptures were altered.

For those of us who have studied both the books know the results well. And it is that outcome that speaks for itself.
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2014 at 10:49am
The Quran was also altered as the Sana'a scriptures show.

Even Mohamed in person abrogated = changed the Quran.
Does  this imply  that God changed his mind in between ?
If not why not ?

Why should God protect one holy book (the Quran) but not another (the Bible) ?
Are there different levels of "holyness ?


Strange, Airmano






Edited by airmano - 26 November 2014 at 1:12pm
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