Judaism and Islam |
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howard
Newbie Joined: 25 September 2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Posted: 28 September 2005 at 4:53pm |
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What for Muslims are the fundamental
THEOLOGICAL differences between Judaism and Islam? We know what the theological differences are between Christianity and Judaism and between Christianity and Islam. In fact, both Judaism and Islam reject Christianity for IDENTICAL reasons as both religions maintain that God cannot have a Son and that the notion of the Trinity contradicts the essential Oneness of God. Of course I know that Muslims consider that the Jews 'tampered with their Scriptures' and that they castigate Jews for not recognising Jesus and Mohammed as Prophets. But in the Bible itself the Jews want to kill Jesus for the blasphemy of claiming that he is the Son of God - surely what was blasphemy for the Jews would also have been blasphemy for Muslims. Again, not acknowledging Mohammed as a prophet does not consitute a THEOLOGICAL difference between Judaism and Islam. The fact that Judaism does not recognise Mohammed does not mean that the Jews are not rigourours monotheists, prohibiting graven images - synagogues like mosques are only decorated with writings from holy scriptures -there are no statues or paintings in them as you find in churches. So what's the difference? PS. I am not a Jew! |
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Khaledee
Starter Joined: 28 September 2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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although both worship one god but The differ in prophets that make Islam and Judaism very much diverse . While Muslims easily recognised openly the three great prophets Moses , Jesus and Muhammad Pbuh , sadly , jews didnot recognised in both and rejected both as prophets , , not only rejecting them , jews were hostile to both prophets in the beginning of thier missions and continued to the current day and age . That is very fundamental and central for a start before looking deep into discussion of similarity of both monotheists Islam and Judasim . If this is central of part of the three prophets is absent , there are no hope for the jews to reconcile with the muslims . Muslims did reconcile with Judaism as they Love moses as thier own prophet . Muslims always speak about great moses against king Phoraoh but remained muslims , but it is left to the jews to make that great move! |
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howard
Newbie Joined: 25 September 2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Hello Khaladee, But what you mention does not constitute a THEOLOGICAL difference. The fact of not recognising as prophets Jesus and Mohammed does NOT constitute a theological difference. What did Mohammed say about the Oneness of God that Jews would have disagreed with? What did Mohammed say about idolatry that Jews would have disagreed with? What did Mohammed say about polytheism that Jews would have disagreed with? The only book that tells us the CONTENT of the message of Jesus to the Jews is the Bible. The Koran gives us absolutely no notion at all of the CONTENT of the message of Jesus/Isa to the Jews (unlike what the Koran writes about Moses and the Hebrews). In the Bible the Jews condemn Jesus to death on the grounds that he maintains that he is the Son of God. Muslims would have done exactly the same! So the reasons for the opposition of Judaism and Islam to Christianity are IDENTICAL!
This is from a JEWISH website. What is there in it that Muslims would disagree with on THEOLOGICAL grounds? As far as I can tell NOTHING! Edited by howard |
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Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Howard I agree there is no theological difference between
Judaism and Islam. Both religions are of the Abrahamic tradition and both have the fundamental principle of the "One of God" in that there is no difference the only difference you may find are religious and historical differences. As for the comment made in regards o Jesus I don't think Muslims would kill their prophets especially if the knowledge of God had come to a man and whose signs were clear. This is the religious distinction. The Jews in Jesus' time knew of the miracles he had performed and yes they assumed he blasphemied against God by claiming that he is the Son of God, but then again we must do not accept this part of the bible anyway. |
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howard
Newbie Joined: 25 September 2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Israfil, hello
What I find interesting is that in the Koran we can read much about the actual relationship that Moses had with the Hebrews of his time. There are passages in the Quran where Moses/Musa upbraids the Jews for not following God's laws. On the other hand there is a COMPLETE ABSENCE in the Koran of what Isa's message was to the Jews of HIS time. The Quran speaks about Isa's childhood and his death but NOTHING about the content of his message, NOTHING about the content of the Injil that was supposedly revealed to him. Do Muslims claim that the Jews of Isa's time were tempted by idolatry and polytheism as they were in Moses time'? What did Isa tell the Jews about the Oneness of God that they didn't know already? The Koran remains strangely silent on such crucial questions and it is one of the reasons why it is not so much the Injil that should be suspected of 'distorting the truth' but the Koran itself. |
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Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Howard I suspect you may have not read the qur'an entirely or
at least in some depth the following are brief passages of some sayings of Jesus: [43.63] And when Isa came with clear arguments he said: I have come to you indeed with wisdom, and that I may make clear to you part of what you differ in; so be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me: [61.6] And when Isa son of Marium said: O children of Israel! surely I am the apostle of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of an Apostle who will come after me, his name being Ahmad, but when he came to them with clear arguments they said: This is clear magic. [61.14] O you who believe! be helpers (in the cause) of Allah, as~ Isa son of Marium said to (his) disciples: Who are my helpers in the cause of Allah? The disciples said: We are helpers (in the cause) of Allah. So a party of the children of Israel believed and another party disbelieved; then We aided those who believed against their enemy, and they became uppermost. [5.116] And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things. 43:63. When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me. Surah AS-SAFF chapter number 61 verse number 6 "And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!" " Howard the qur'an clearly denies the death of Jesus here: 4.157] And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure. Allah says here that rather he ascended to Empyrean [3.55] And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed. Howard you have to understand that the Qur'an does not in detail discuss the particulars of the Gospels nor the Torah but rather their central messages. Not all Jews practiced monotheism as we see that Jews we in fact captive as well as inhabitants in the Roman empire at one point as we see in the times of Jesus. There were some who left the orthodox aspect of judaism to adopt pagan monotheism in the Roman empire, adopting certain philosophical principles that philosophers such as Plato held. Or as the heterodoxical tales of Lilth added to Jewish legend. All these things summed up the reason why God sends his prophets at specific times. As the Qur'an notes about the injeel (Gospel) o my assumption the Injeel is a supplimental text which confirms the Torah also adding additions to the Law it's specific are unknown to me. "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus, the Son of Mary, confirming the law that had come before him. We gave him the Gospel, therein was guidance and light and confirmation of the law that had come before him, a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah." 5/46. Another saying of Jesus: "I am indeed a servant of Allah, He gave me the Book and made me a prophet." 19/32 Here are some things you may find that are mentioned in the Injeel and Torah but only briefly: "The similitude of the companions of the Prophet Muhammed� in the Injeel is like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong, it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, feeling the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result it fills the unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those amongst them who believe and do righteous deeds, forgiveness and a great reward." 48/29 "My mercy is extended to all things. That mercy I shall ordain for those who do right and pay zakat and those who believe in our signs. Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered prophet, who they find mentioned in their own scriptures, the Torah and Injeel." "We sent him the Injeel, therein was guidance and light and confirmation of the Torah that had come before him. A guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah." 5/46. Finally we come to the end of what you mentioned regarding he sayings of Jesus and whether there was something in addition to what Jews already knew. The main theme of Jesus like tht of Muhammad wa the reaffirmation of the Oneness of God. Because of cultural influence in those societies it is not uncommon to assume nor to find in the history of the Jews and Christians that the loss of monotheism was evident. I hope this helps. |
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howard
Newbie Joined: 25 September 2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Israfil,
The quotes you have given above say nothing about the content of the Injil. Are these supposed quotes part of the Injil? Or are they 'ahadeeth'? Which Jews in Israel were practising polytheism? Jews were divided into sects at the time of Jesus (Essenes, Pharisees, Saducees) but there is no historical record of Jews ever having practiced anything but the strictest monotheism in Israel itself. Their own Scriptures warned them insistently and vehemently of the error of slipping into polytheism. What were the clear signs that Isa presented to the Jews? Again, we have no precise details from the Quran. What were the miracles Isa performed as an adult? The same miracles as are related in the NT or other miracles? Did Isa write the Injil? Did his disciples write it? What became of it? Why did Allah reveal a Kitab to Isa if it were not going to survive for even a century? Why did Allah let so many people be DELUDED into thinking that Isa had been crucified? Finally as I've asked on another thread, why did Allah in the Quran give the name Injil (derived from the Greek) to the Kitab that was revealed to Isa? According to Muslims was Isa's mother tongue Greek? |
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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Though I leave the rest of your post for brother Israfil to respond as it is nothing but rudimentary in nature, however, concerning your assertion about word "Injeel" being derived from Greek, kindly go back to the same thread and you shall find the appropriate response to it.
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