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Saved
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 11:23am |
2Acts wrote:
Jesus was divine and human. The family trees in the Bible are his human family tree (geneology) |
Yes, and it traces back to King David; his question has been answered.
Edited by Saved - 16 November 2016 at 11:24am
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asep48garut60
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 12:34pm |
2Acts wrote:
asep48garut60 wrote:
Dear Saved,
In Islam, not only Jesus who said "I am the Way ..." I believe that other Messengers of Allah also said like that, for example, Allah told the Prophet Muhammad in the Quran 3:31.
Regards,
Asep
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Quaran 31 says - "Obey Allah and the messenger."
That is different from what Jesus said. Jesus did not say "obey me to find the way" He said I AM The way. Be one in me" ! |
Dear 2Acts,
Yes, you are right that in Quran 3:31, Muslims should follow the Prophet Muhammad (in the way of worship) if Muslims want to be loved by Allah.
Do you mean the words of Jesus: "I am the way ..."? whether it's an order to follow the way of worship Jesus or not? or whether the intent of "Be one in me" is that all Christians united with Jesus? Could you explain it?
Regards,
Asep
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asep48garut60
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 12:38pm |
2Acts wrote:
asep48garut60 wrote:
Dear Saved,
I didn�t say �God may have sons by the tons as you mentioned�, I even deny that God has a son, even me explain to you what is stated in John 5:27 that there is the same understanding with the statement in the Quran 4: 171, Koran 5: 116-120 that Jesus is the son of man, not a son of God.
You said �Theses titles concerning Jesus need to be looked at in the context of all the gospel. You cannot take one phrase and created a doctrine. �
Therefore, I've read the contents of some of the Gospels, and I found a lot of contents aren't equal between one to another. do I need to prove?
Regards,
Asep
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Yes. You need to prove ! |
Dear 2Acts,
Here are some evidence that I read:
1. Which one is true, 8 years or 18 years?
"Jehoiachin was eight years old when he became king, and three months and ten days he reigned in Jerusalem. He did evil in the sight of God. "(The Book of 2 Chronicles 36:9)
"Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he became king, and he reigned three months in Jerusalem. His mother's name Nehusta bint Elnathan, from Jerusalem. "(The Book of 2 Kings 24:8)
2. Which one is right, God or the Devil?
"Rise wrath of God against Israel; He incited David against them, He say, 'Go, count the people of Israel and Judah.' "(The Book of 2 Samuel 24:1)
"Devil stood up against the people of Israel, and persuaded David to number Israel." (The Book of 1 Chronicles 21:1)
3. Verse unreasonable
"And Shem and Japhet took a garment, and put on their shoulders, and walked retreat to the back and cover up his father naked and their faces turned their father in order not to see the body of their father were nude. And Noah awoke from hangover, he know what has been done by his two sons ". (Genesis 9: 23-24)
Does God send Noah (a prophet) behaves like that? Could this fraud committed Jews to mislead the Christians?
And many others.
Regards,
Asep
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asep48garut60
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 12:40pm |
2Acts wrote:
asep48garut60 wrote:
Saved wrote:
asep48garut60 wrote:
Saved wrote:
asep48garut60 wrote:
Dear Saved,
Alright, here lies a very fundamental difference.
In Christianity, Jesus is the son of God, in Islam Jesus (Isa) is not the son of God, but he is a human as mentioned in Quran 4: 171, Quran 5: 116-120, and the Gospel of Barnabas (John 5:27).
The verses in the Quran and John 5:27 has the same understanding.
And if I look carefully, the contents of the Gospel have similar form with hadith in Islam.
Regards,
Asep
| Hi Asep:
Jn. 5:26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. 27 And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice�
Lets look at it in context. According to the gospel God judges no man but has committed all judgment to the son so that they will honor the Son the same as the Father.
When the Scripture says "Son of Man" that is higher than sons of god, because there is only one son of man in the context it is used. It is the same son of man that appeared with the three Hebrew children thrown in the fire found in the Book of Daniel the prophet.
That verse is not emphasizing Jesus' humanity. When Jesus referred to himself as son of man that upset the Jews more than anything else. Besides, you are looking at this from a carnal perspective. Since you are, think of this question and answer it: Was a man involved to procreate Jesus?
The Quran might make the phrase "Son of Man" or the disparaging phrase "Son of Mary" to mean just being a human man. The emphasizes might be man in the Quran, but not so with the gospel verse Jn 5:27
Peace,
Al |
Dear Saved,
One thing that doesn't make sense to me, why in the Gospel verse John 5:27 God says, "He is the son of man", why did not say "He is my son"?
I think all religions in this world agree that their God can not be debased His position as God by His creatures.
Therefore, there is my previous question related to Jesus is the Son of God ie whether Mary has parents?
Regards,
Asep
| Hi Asep:
Jesus referred to himself as the son of man and God referred to Him as Son of God. As I mentioned, when the Scripture says "Son of Man" that is higher than sons of god, because there is only one son of man in the context it is used. It is the same son of man that appeared with the three Hebrew children thrown in the fire found in the Book of Daniel the prophet.
PBUY,
Al
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Dear Saved,
If Jesus is the son of God, what the name of the family tree between God and Mary's parents?
Regards,
Asep
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Jesus was divine and human. The family trees in the Bible are his human family tree (geneology) |
Dear 2Acts,
I understand if it means like that, however "Jesus was divine and human." That means that God entered into the body of Jesus?
Regards,
Asep
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Saved
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 8:42pm |
asep48garut60 wrote:
I understand if it means like that, however "Jesus was divine and human." That means that God entered into the body of Jesus?
Regards,
Asep
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Not exactly, but not far from the truth. It is more like Jesus is the essence, nature and character of God (The Word of God) made human yet he was less than God by position, office and function. It is like saying Jesus is all that God is but not all there is to God. This is infinitely greater than what the finite human mind can gasp, but it is the concept of the gospel in regards to His triunity.
That is why Jesus was able to say "If you have seen me you have seen (God) the father." To know Jesus is to have eternal life, the kingdom of God or paradise within you now. IOW, we can have God (The Holy Spirit) inside of us. This is something that no other religion can offer us. We can have benefit from other religions, but there is no other name given us whereby we might be saved but the name of Jesus Christ who is able to forgive sin, heal the sick, raise the dead and create life.
Edited by Saved - 16 November 2016 at 8:52pm
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asep48garut60
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Posted: 18 November 2016 at 11:43pm |
Dear Saved,
We already know that we have different beliefs, and what you believe in is not the same as what I believe because we have an understanding of each.
Regards,
Asep
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Saved
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Posted: 19 November 2016 at 7:50am |
asep48garut60 wrote:
Dear Saved,
We already know that we have different beliefs, and what you believe in is not the same as what I believe because we have an understanding of each.
Regards,
Asep
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Yes, but it is good to talk and reason. God said come and let us reason together; though your sins be red as scarlet, they shall be white as snow. So, God says it is good to reason with Him; so, how much more is it good to reason with each other even though we know what we believe?
Peace
Edited by Saved - 19 November 2016 at 7:51am
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2Acts
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Posted: 22 November 2016 at 4:27pm |
Saved wrote:
asep48garut60 wrote:
I understand if it means like that, however "Jesus was divine and human." That means that God entered into the body of Jesus?
Regards,
Asep
| Not exactly, but not far from the truth. It is more like Jesus is the essence, nature and character of God (The Word of God) made human yet he was less than God by position, office and function. It is like saying Jesus is all that God is but not all there is to God. This is infinitely greater than what the finite human mind can gasp, but it is the concept of the gospel in regards to His triunity.
That is why Jesus was able to say "If you have seen me you have seen (God) the father." To know Jesus is to have eternal life, the kingdom of God or paradise within you now. IOW, we can have God (The Holy Spirit) inside of us. This is something that no other religion can offer us. We can have benefit from other religions, but there is no other name given us whereby we might be saved but the name of Jesus Christ who is able to forgive sin, heal the sick, raise the dead and create life. |
An interesting answer Saved.
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