Islam and Ethics

Community wrote:   How do you conclude these verses where "direct to the point of the question"? I did not hear Nima say wether a person who is an "truistic agnostic" has faith in The One God or not....

Are you now clear after the explanation about agnostics? In view of this definition, which I happened to know (not to boast about this), the Quranic reference is quite closer to the question. That is to say, its not the deeds in this world that would have any meaning, if (remember, a big IF) they have rejected the messangers or the signs of Allah. Then in the same explanation, I did cautioned not to generalize this verse on to those who don't reject God (as the agnostics are). I hope this make sense. Indeed Allah knows the best.

I think Sufi is correct in as much as most agnostics that I associate with simply don't know what they believe.  So, they label themselves as agnostic while they search for the truth of their hearts.  Where Athiests annoy me, agnostics sadden me.  They don't know their loving God and they live in limbo when it comes to the end of their mortal lives. God understands we are imperfect and there is alot out there to confuse and lead astray. 

I know many good people who are lost.  My friend Mark is one, he was raised Catholic, but after Bosnia and witnessing the victims there, he questions if God exists and how he could let people kill each other like that.  I have to believe that there is Mercy from God for those lost souls who have not received his message, whatever that may be.

Altruism is wonderful.  To be generous and kind always its a wonderful trait that even religious people should try to be. 

Thanks for the response all and to each I'll address to you by name

Sufi_Observer: First and foremost I do happen to know what I'm talking about when it comes to being an Agnostic who does not understand the mysteries of spirituality nor can find the reality to understand the spirituality of God in nature, therefore I have trouble summoning that sense in me. I disagree that an Agnostic or an Atheist can believe in spirituality. Because by definition, to be an Atheist and believe in spirituality would be a form of being a deist (which is one who believes in spirituality) to be an atheist and spiritual is contradictory. The individuals you know who claim to be Atheist and spiritualist are confused not atheist at all.

The same rule applies for Agnostic. If I'm unsure on my path in life to choose a particular religious path to find God how am I certain about the spirituality of nature? How do I find spiritual mysticism in nature if I cannot discern what is spiritual and natural? Again those of the individuals you mention are confused not TRUE Atheist or Agostics.

Angela: No offense but it's quite typical for a Christian to be sadden by an Agnostic not finding a god or God because he/she is unsure. I believe in the words of Ghandi there religions as there are people. In Islam you have to have "Islamic beliefs" or in some relation to that in order to obtain tranquility after death. As some of you Muslims mentioned using verses from the Qur'an. As a seeker of some sort of spiritual truth that is not appealing, the same with the Christian doctrine. No offense again Angela I understand you are not certified to proseltyze for your religion I assume otherwise you'd taken a different approach to insult me by saying you are sadden that I dont believe in God.

I find it even more insulting that you guys fail to realize that finding God is an experience that many sometimes don't experience. Sometimes we find God through drugs, sex or whatever sins we indulge. Sometimes we find God in nature, honor or things that are righteous. But regardless these are experiences everyone shares indiviudally. There is no universal timeline on how to experience God, to please spare me the egotistical Christian rhetoric.

Community: Like some of the Muslims so far (with the exclusion of Ahmad Joyia) you don't seem to sound sincere in expressing your Islamic beliefs to your guest. Perhaps I guess you can't find sympathy online. I know a Muslim professor at my University who I talk to during our break hours and although he is sincere and very humble in his beliefs its obviously a bias belief for him to prove or to explain how I can find God past agnosticism. Again I wish all here would understand that what leads up to the truth of things are the experiences (or in mathematical terms, formulas). I would hope you all would respect that rather using insulting comments like sadden and using verses to thump the Agnosticism out of me.

Sorry you feel you have to leave because we came to a disagreement and my apologies if you feel that I was judgemental to your friends or those who you associate with in that respect. But in matters of identity in this case as I had mentioned before that true Atheist do not hold a spiritual belief. Again any true atheist will tell you that they believe that there is nothing "mystical" in this world as Atheism implies. Rather, its the natural and comprehensible world that we live in are the truths they examine and believe in.

As for Agonostics its similar. Most Agnostics like my self are not confused but rather neutral in regards to theistic and atheistic beliefs. As you mentioned Buddhists you incorrectly indicate that Buddhist are atheistic. Not true, not all Buddisht are. Like most religions you have the orthodox and the unorthodox. Although orthodox Buddhist has no god there are others who have deities they worship i.e Buddha himself as a god. Also orthodox Buddhist has no mystical philosophy about the world except that Nirvana is reached through discipline and annihilation.