Who is Jesus?

AhmedNagi wrote: Al Salamu Alaykum Wa Rahamtu Allahi Wa Barakatuh, Dear Gospelmap,    Im ok with the idea that Jesus has never sinned. But I have a question for you: How can i believe that the bible we have represents the true sayings of Jesus? It's full of contradictions and if Jesus never erred then there is no way he contradicted himself or science. Pure and simple.

Thanks anhmad for your response.let me take your first question

"How can i believe that the bible we have represents the true sayings of Jesus?"

You can very well trust the bible because there was no room for corruption in presence of lots of manuscripts (almost 24000) that is still present from ancient times -some dating back to first century and many from second century and lots of before Islam arrived.If you take them all and compare it you wont find any corruption and tampering of the central message.there could be spelling mistakes while hand written copying from the many orginals that were perishing due to written on perishing material like skin,leaves ,parchments,pots etc.

We find even during muhammed's time these manuscripts were still preserved and unchanged.if there was any change even after muhammed's time then there would have been an immedite response and rechecking to expose it taking into consideration the vast amount of manuscripts.the canons of scriptures were thus establshed to reject anything that came in direct contradiction with the original copies,thus making the orignals more secure.

let me also give you some insight and reason from the islamic history to show how the bible was secure ,unchanged and realiable.

Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath REVEALED THEREIN. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. S. 5:47

 

Khadija then took him to Waraqa bin Naufil, the son of Khadija's paternal uncle. Waraqa had been converted to Christianity in the Pre-lslamic Period and used to write Arabic and write of THE GOSPEL in Arabic as much AS ALLAH WISHED HIM TO WRITE ... (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 478)

According to these citations Waraqa knew the Gospel and translated it into Hebrew and Arabic, and this was the will of Allah for him to do so. Why would Allah want Waraqa to translate a corrupt Gospel in the language of the people which would only end up misleading them?.But actually this verse is directed to Christians of Muhammad's time. They are told to judge by what Allah has revealed in the Gospel. This presumes that an uncorrupt Gospel was available during Muhammad's time, otherwise how could Christians judge by it?.

Ahmad ibn 'Abd Allah ibn Salam [also] said:

I have translated the beginning of this book, and the Torah, THE GOSPELS, and THE BOOKS OF THE PROPHETS and disciples from Hebrew, Greek, and Sabian, which are the languages of the people of each book, in Arabic, letter for letter ... (Abu 'l-Faraj Muhammad ibn Ishaq al-Nadim, The Fihrist - A 10th Century AD Survey of Islamic Culture, edited and translated by Bayard Dodge [Great Books of the Islamic World, Inc., Columbia University Press, 1970], p. 42; bold and capital emphasis ours)

 

Narrated 'Aisha:
The Prophet returned to Khadija while his heart was beating rapidly. She took him to Waraqa bin Naufal who was a Christian convert and used to read the GOSPELS in Arabic... (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 605)

These citations demonstrate that the four Gospels are the authentic inspired records of THE GOSPEL that Jesus preached to his followers.as per Qur'an 5: 48 The Qur'an not only claims to confirm the previous Scriptures but also claims the responsibility of being, "the watcher and protector over it".Why did the Muslims fail to preserve this Gospel seeing that it was the very Gospel which the Quran claims was sent down to Jesus?

"And if thou art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee"(sura yunus 10:94)

 

If corrupted after Muhammed :

1.this charge contradicts the Qur'an, since it claims to be the guardian of the previous inspired books. Thus, anyone who claims that there has been a corruption of the text of the Torah or of the Injil also, inevitably, charges the Qur'an with failure in its role as Guardian!

2.This further contradicts because how come quran is telling about corruption since it did not take place in muhammed's time.? or was muhammed saying "beware the gospels are going to be changed or taken away".if that is so then it must alert the muslims because they are suppose to guard the original injil.

3.Even more it contradicts because some of the verses are totally opposite compared to the existed injil that was not corrupted like Jesus death and crucifixion.

 

 Hence my friend I request you to study yourself and find what Jesus said.I wish you the best in your search for truth.

 

AhmedNagi wrote: Al Salamu Alaykum Wa Rahamatu Allahi Wa Barakatuh, Dear Gospelmap,    When the Quran refers to the Injil, it refers to the uncorrupt version. See, you can extract some truth out of the Bible you have today. We can know that they are truths because they agree with what's in the Quran. The corrupt Bible that we have today is not the Injil. It might contain parts of it but is also has extra parts added by different people throughout history. Also no where does it say that we Muslims are required to preserve the Injil.    Before Muhammed became a Prophet, people were required to believe in the Bible because it was the closest thing they had to the truth and God's word. But with the revleation of the Quran, people now had a the full truth and were required to follow it.    Now you calim that the scriptures from which the Bible was collected are sifted through with great care. Then how can it contain contradictions within itself? Surely neither God nor Jesus contradicted themselves? Thus parts of the Bible must have been added by the people writing it down.    As for the mistakes made by copying and unintentional writing, that doesn't excuse them from being mistakes. How can I follow something that is wrong whether it was written down wrong intentionally or unintentionally. Even though that excuse for mistakes can't apply for contradictions like the huge difference in genealogy of Jesus between Matthew and Luke. There is no way the argument of an uncorrupt Bible holds when it is full of glaring contradictions with its ownself let alone science and history. Anyway this excuse of miscpoying doesn't really apply to the following example:  2SA 24:1 The Lord inspired David to take the census. 1CH 21:1 Satan inspired the census. or: PR 26:4 Do not answer a fool. To do so makes you foolish too. PR 26:5 Answer a fool. If you don't, he will think himself wise. or: IS 44:24 God created heaven and earth alone. JN 1:1-3 Jesus took part in creation. And the list goes on... Why should any person follow an errant book, while a totally flawless one is present?

thanks ahmed for responding.I will be outstation for a week let me put some question before you to think that may help to answer self.

1.Was the original injil which was uncorrupted present during muhammed's time?

If yes as per your above statement as muhammed was referring to it,then why does muhammed also contradict,disagree,deny the contents from the orginal uncorrupted injil? (example Jesus crucifixion , Jesus being called the son of God ,his resurrection etc). he was condemning because he referred to it and proclaimed it as false (even the orginal injil??). if the above example was not present then was he referring to another gospel?.but if so then it will contradict your statement because you said he was referring to the orginal injil.But if you say he was referring to the corrupted bible then why use a corrupted source for reference??

..�If you are in doubt concerning that we reveal unto thee, then question or ask those who read the book before you (The bible). (Qur�an sura yunus 10:94)

hence we see in one part he tells to refer the bible and in another he condemns the other contents from the same bible.it sounds too contradictory.

2.The bible verses you mentioned above nowhere contradictsand also ask how does that make a diffrence to the central message of the scripture if it was changed.let me take one by one

2SA 24:1 The Lord inspired David to take the census.
1CH 21:1 Satan inspired the census

1.Since David had purposed within his heart to number Israel, something which the Lord was aware of. Realizing this, the Lord in his anger moved David through the agency of the Devil to act upon his heart's desire. hence we see both are mentioned,God permitted or allowed the devil to act upoun David due to the pride of his might.

PR 26:4 Do not answer a fool. To do so makes you foolish too.
PR 26:5 Answer a fool. If you don't, he will think himself wise.

since there are diffrent kind of fools ,the verses above is applied in diffrent context.the wisdom need to be applied how should we respond to various fools.hence the writer knowing both closely ties the verse togther.hence the question should I answer a fool or not? so e the above verse poses a dilemma than contradiction.the answer is sometimes yes sometime no.

IS 44:24 God created heaven and earth alone.
JN 1:1-3 Jesus took part in creation.

God as per the bible is Father ,son (Jesus) and the holy spirit who are one in essence as spirit but yet plural in revelation.hence the  God the father and the spirit created the world through Jesus- the second person of trinity.so we see there is no contradiction.

3.The warnings in the Bible are many and severe against anyone trying to change God's Holy revelation. It makes no sense to say that they went against such warnings, and then even preserved the very warnings they were ignoring.who would like to invite curse after reading the following verse.

�I warn everyone who hears the word of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book and if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him the share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book (Rev22: 18-19)

4.If one looks at the content of the Holy Bible, one is led to ask what possible gain would there be for men to invent such a Book? why would the disciples invent a crucified ,killed,massacred , insulted savior? what would they gain except intense persecution ? almost all the disciples were killed in a brutal way for their faith..when they were persecuted they forgave the killers just like their lord Jesus.they got nothing except shame ,pain , lonliness, etc .why would they die for somethig they know was invented?Would anyone die a martyr's death for a book he knew to be a fraud?

 

 

The world is going to be really armageddon based on the NT's revealation. This is indeed is happening as The Churches in England has approved it to come true as per the prediction in NT. The armageddon starts with gay and lesbian marriages, thus disallowing the future seeds to survive.

Shouldn't you be spending your time to preach in the England Church which had married 100 gay & lesbian couples including Mr. Elton John and his husband?

Other than preaching about Christianity theology in this forum, talk more about the Churches that approved armageddon.

WHAT YOU CHRISTIAN GONNA DO ABOUT IT? ENJOY THE CELEBRATION OF ARMAGEDDON?   For this, you should start opening your eyes and not closing it when preaching about Christianity. Solve your own problem in your own world. It is pointless and meaningless to believe something that betrays your own religion.

Thank GOD really, that there is Islam guiding us to the truth. Otherwise, it's going to be 100% armageddon..really. At least with Islam and other religion which condemn selfish human act to lead the world to armageddon through the hypocrite authored so-called "Divine Revelation". If the so-called "Divine Revelation" is from GOD then it is my foot you smell.

Edited by pauline35

Al Salamu Alaykum Wa Rahamatu Allahi Wa Barakatuh,

   One has to find the truth using the most logical methods of thinking. God's true message can be found through intertwining logic and scriptures. The problem here is finding the right scriptures, the true ones. Jesus was given a divine message and we Muslims believe in it. The question is, are the scriptures we have now that claim to be passed by Jesus, the real scriptures he did pass down? The reason is because God's message is not only limited to love. It also covers life, justice, morals, ethics, history, all of which are aspects that should be held with the same importance as love. And even though one can't go wrong with loving everyone, one can go wrong on all the other elements due to lack of knowledge. The only way one can find the best way to act is through following God's message. Thus one has to find the true message in order to avoid mislead judgement.