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Interracial relationships

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2005 at 10:45pm

Mish then obviously our opinions vary...As a philosopher I don't see any rationality in thinking one suffering is greater than another because the effect is still the same. I agree that most Muslims of other cultures who live in countries where racism isn't as prevanlent are perhaps ignorant to the world outside, but it exist nonetheless. Perhaps you should look at it at the point where those who have experienced racism come from.

Racism has existed long before girls were being buried in the dirt as it existed in the times of tribalism again is make this as a secondary reference. Mish I wish you would unerstand my point here. It's not to say what yuo you say is not true but on the contrary quite true. You also have to accept the fact that your comments regarding this issue is bias and that according to your experience YOU feel its more of an important issue more than racism but perhaps if you experienced it then maybe you'd be signing a different tune.

as for Candor my apologies that i used profanity in the form of acronymns. May Allah most merciful forgive me for that. Since I'm the adult person here I'm willing to accept my wrong you on the other hand I think differently. Mish I would hope you would comm ent more on the issue of racism as that was the point of me making this thread, if you can't then i guess our dialogue is finished. 

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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mishmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2005 at 11:04pm

But I have experienced racism. I experience it almost daily as a Muslim woman who wears full hijab in the USA. I have been physically attacked by a woman in a supermarket the day after 9-11, I have been called names, I have been threatened by a whole truck full of white men who followed me and almost ran me off the road until I flagged over a police car.  I was denied a job because the interviewer asked me outright if I had to wear that "get-up" to work everyday if they hired me. I'm pretty sure no-one has ever asked you if you have to be black everyday if they hire you.

I have also experienced the prejudice of being a woman. Prejudice in this country where you have to become a sex-object to be accepted, and second class treatment by many Muslim men who think that women don't need to be heard, they must only listen.

So, I outscore you as I have two strikes against me to your one.

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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herjihad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herjihad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2005 at 4:33am

Bismillah,

I have read the thread and want to make a comment to you Israfil that responds to your original post.  I agree with a lot of things you and MishMish and Khadija said and some of what AbuAisha said.  I don't quite understand Candor.  But generally, we are all Muslim brothers and sisters, and we need to remember that always.  It is the love of our Allah, SWT, and His Holy prophets that unites us and will continue to do so.  Get mad, but get over it.

I just want to mention something that is a subtly present idea in this discussion, but bring it out openly.  A marriage involves the man and woman and their families and their communities and their races and their cultures and their nationalities. 

Here is my point:   So the second thing to consider after the compatibility of the woman and man is the compatibility of the families of the two.  Or maybe it should be jointly considered.  Most especially it would be vital to life's happiness to avoid a marriage in which the parents hated each other or either their son or daughter in law.  Marriage is a family affair.  Peaceful cooperation between these parties vitalizes and secures marriages.

You seem like a nice, although not perfect, young man.  ISA, you will find a compatible spouse soon.

Culture is a very wide topic.  For example, a southern man wants to marry a northern woman, both white, but his family can't relate to her because she is what they call a Yankee.  They love each other and are perfect for each other, but it won't be a good match because of the extreme hatred of this southern family for the Yankees! 

But this speaks to the compatiblity of the parents of the people wishing to marry, which is my main point.  Even though their cultures seemingly kept them apart, it was his family's actions and behavior that really would have made such a union really impossible.

Israfil, I am just saying to YOU that for your marriage to work, there are many factors you could consider, and her family and yours acceptance of one another is a vital component.

I wish I knew a girl suitable that I could recommend, but I don't know a lot of people anymore.  I tried to find someone for my obese, older friend, but everyone here thought it was a joke.  Who would want to marry an obese, bi-polar older intellectual?  Well, I'm going to post her information on  a marriage site anyway, ISA.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Muslim Friend View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Muslim Friend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2005 at 10:20am

Can i just put this to Isa and Candor politely - Quit discussing your private messages in public!!!!

You either discuss the whole damn thing on the main discussion board or do it all in private, but can you quit moaning about whos not answered who and what whos said and how who replied!!!

 

And candor - Just because you are not aware of any racial issues in India does most certainly not mean they don't exist. Wih regards to interracial marriages - i believe the biggest set back is that ppl are afraid if they marry out of their casts(!)then,

A - The couple won't understand each other - because your marriages will more than likely be arranged therefore, you'll only meet a few times before the wedding.

B - The families will not get along as they have different rules culturally.

C - That the other person will in some way ruin your family and ppl will make comment and talk about you daughter etc...therefore they chose to make the comfortable decision - and no-one will point fingers.

Its silly really



Edited by Muslim Friend
O Allah! Bless Muhammad and let his be the place close to you on the day of Resurrection.
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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mishmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2005 at 10:35am

Originally posted by herjihad herjihad wrote:

I wish I knew a girl suitable that I could recommend, but I don't know a lot of people anymore.  I tried to find someone for my obese, older friend, but everyone here thought it was a joke.  Who would want to marry an obese, bi-polar older intellectual?  Well, I'm going to post her information on  a marriage site anyway, ISA.

Assalamu Alaikum Sister:

How sad that everyone thought you were joking. I personally know two Sisters who married through the Islamicity marriage site as I helped them post their info. One was in her 20's, one late 30's, both overweight but beautiful, Masha'Allah. They are both very happy and have been married for 7 years.

Insha'Allah you will find a husband for your friend. Just tell her to be patient and pray that Allah sends her what is the best for her.

Salaams.

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2005 at 2:47pm

Mishmish no offense sister but I thought your ending comment about I got two strikes to your one strike" kind of childish and I think anyone here who read that would agree. That is almost saying: I have more scars on my body than you" quite childish would you agree? Mishmish being chased or called name by qhite men because you are wearing Hijab is not racism that is religious discrimination and sexual discrimination but not racial discrimination. sister not to insult your intelligence but I'm more than happy to help define that for you.

Let us get something straight here since Mishmish likes to compare battle scars. I'm pretty sure me as an African-american have experienced more types of discrimination than you have and continued to do so. I'm sure as a black man for 400 years before you and your ancestors perhaps immigrated to the States (or wherever) have experienced discrimination since you wanna go there. I did research on my family tree and to my surprise came from a Muslim family West Africa (Sierra Leone) or known as "Ivory coast."

Guess who sold them to slavery? North African Muslim Arabs...LOL what was funny is that there was an actual document that the geneologist (I believe that is the correct term) had found because the slave that was sold was named Amir Abd'ullah (which is my great great geat................grandfather) who was sold by his owner whose name was Hossein, Ahmad Muhammad. I was astonished all this was documented! I don't know how this family immigrated to Morocco but eventually they fell into slavery and were sold to some European owneers who sold them to a family in Mississippi. From there I'm sure if you read your history book you'll know how and when slavery began.

My point here is that its not only ridiculous to compare battle scars but pointless. So for you to prove your point regaring sexual discrimination and gender issues as more important based on your experiences is ridiculous. All issues are important and none superceeds the others. I don't think you as a white woman (I assume this from your PM) understand this. I'm sure nobody here does understand the issues dealing with Black America and racial issues. Again I remind you even during the time of the prophet (and this is recorded in Hadith) Abu Jahl referred to Bilal as "Son of a slave woman." so yes racism even in the Muslim community is prevalent.

Sister Herjihad ou bring up a good point regarding culture, but what I referred to was not geographical culture i.e culture in where one lives but culture in regards to ethnicity and nationality and how these cultures interrelate. A souther white family and Northern white family I agree would have issues marrying their children to each other because of varying issues i.e religion, wealth etc. But if it was a black Southern Family trying to marrying their son/daughter with a White Northern Family I think the issue would even be more complex.

The White Southern family has a better chance than the black souther family just because of ethnic culture issues not just the religion wealth issues. that is my point and the same goes for Muslim immigrants marrying their son/daughter with Muslim Americans. Let me remind the room that ignoranceis ignorance and it exist within all cultures and the true nature of a Muslim is to see beyond cultural lines. Culture should not be the guideline for one wanting to get married. Remember the prophet said good works superceed all others as this is what Allah judges us on.

As for Muslim Friend here here! I appreciate someone seeing what I'm coming from. I appreciate the fact that someone addressed the issue with Candor's ignorant reply. Yes sister Herjihad we are all brothers and sisters in Islam but I reserve the right to excommunicate someone especially if he/she doesn't address me in the appropriate way as a Muslim. We as a community will never advance until we learn to deal with things.

Mishmish please read what I say and evaluate it and note evetything.

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candor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote candor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2005 at 9:06pm

Historically, Muslims did dealt in slaves. But they didn't picked up a particular race for slavery. The Janissaries were mostly White (though, men form other races were also among them).  Thus, slavery practised by the Muslims cannot be called racist. I am not excusing the Muslims for practising slavery but just suggesting that the bigger picture should be looked into.

At the time of Prophet, Muslims had Arab slaves too, I think.



Edited by candor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote candor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2005 at 9:10pm

Quote as for Candor my apologies that i used profanity in the form of acronymns

Nope, I didn't mind that at all. What else can be expected from your dirty culture where only sex and wine are important?

Courage is not absence of fear.
Smoking is injurious to health.
Bigger is the gun, smaller is the brain.
Intelligence=Knowledge+Imagination.
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