Interracial relationships

Brother Israfil:

You are the one who stated that I was ignorant and didn't understand because I had never experienced prejudice or racism. Aren't you referring to your own experiences in stating that I can't understand because I haven't experienced what you have as an African American?

So, apparently it is not ridiculous for you to base your posts on your own experiences, just ridiculous if anyone else does so.

The difference between us is that I do not see myself as the constant victim. No one can have experienced anything as bad as you have, no one can truly understand your point of view,and anyone who disagrees is just ignorant, uneducated, or not schooled in the way of the great pontificator.

Well, I agree that there is prejudice within the Islamic Ummah, but it is not based merely on race or culture, and it also goes all ways. I told you about the African American brother who asked my Wali to meet me because he thought I was African American also, and when he discovered I was white he told me very forthrightly that he would never marry anyone except a black Muslim woman.

I could have taken this very personally and held a grudge against all African American Muslim men, but why would I want to do that based on one person's preferences. It was his right to marry whoever he wanted, whatever race or culture she happened to be. Was he racist in his remarks to me? Some people would think so, and I'm sure if he were Arab and I were African American and he said the same thing to me you would find it very offensive. But you didn't find it as offensive when I first told you this happened and the circumstances in the PM. In fact, you told me that it wasn't prejudice if he thought my name sounded black. I still have this message if you want me to post your exact words. Perhaps this didn't seem as offensive to you because he was African American and not from the Middle East or Asia.

My point is, it's all a matter of perspective. If you choose to see certain activities as prejudicial rather than a matter of personal preference, then that's your choice. Just as if you choose to see those who don't share your point of view as ignorant. That's your choice. Al HamdiAllah Allah has made us all different and given us all the ability to process information and activities in our own way. Some people choose to see the negative rather than the positive. That's your choice. 

One more note Brother Israfil, despite your kind offer to correct my English once again, I must state that these instances were definitely racially motivated.

When someone is shouting at you to go back where you came from you (curse word) terrorist, or following behind you and trilling, (like Arab women do at celebrations) and telling you to go back home Sand N_ _ _ _ _, there are definite racial overtones. Just because these morons were too ignorant to realize I was a white American doesn't mean that it is any less a case of racism.

Mishmish may I suggest before we address each other say As'Salaamu Alaikum Wa' Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh

Allah's blessing on you this day........Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays!

Ok now let us continue. First and foremost let me contradict your assertion that I am victimizing myself. You are wrong asserting that I consider myself as a continuous victim either that comment was made in the sense of a generalization towards me being a black person or you just assumed that, either way both are wrong. If I played as a victim I would have excuses for all my problems but that isn't how I was raised nor do I see the world in that light.

Secondly, I don't call you ignorant in the sense of lack of intelligence, or whether you disagree with me or because you have a low IQ. What I mean that you're ignorant of the plight of people of color in America as a history in general. But this had nothing to do with your intelligence.

Regarding the invidividual you mentioned both PM and here I believe I told you my view. First off its not prejusdice someone is interested in you because of your name its called misunderstanding, now if his inention was to be interested in you only because you sounded or because you look like a specific ethnic group then yes that is prejudice. When the African-American fellow who made the ignorant statement that he lost interest in you because your white is ignorance and if you saw my post earlier (like many others) you would find me saying racism/prejudice is prevalent in all societies and cultures.

What he said to you was not only ignorant and stupid but racist and that is my point. before we get off the subject here the whole reason why I made this thread was because I wanted to address the problem with racism/prejudice in the Muslim community. No I would say racism by itself is not the biggest problem in the world but its one of the biggest problems that all humans face so I believe it is an important issue to discuss.

I've heard some Muslims use the argument saying that Muslims are entitled to teach their kids the value of marrying within one's culture and that its nothing wrong with enstilling your children to marry within your own group. Let me remind those Muslims that for non-Muslim's that ideology is right and nothing wrong with that but for Muslims that is not an ideology associated with Islam. we as Muslims must be cognizant of the core teachings of Islam. When we submit its the psychological process we go through to allow our "free" minds to be taken over by the words of God.

One of the things the prophet mentioned before his death was that we excel each other not by our culture but by our works. Now one of the things some Muslim families fail in is that they teach cultural pride to their children but don't enstill the philosophy that any potential mate is worthy of union so long as they are good natured. Have we forgotten about that? Again let me address everyone and say that culture and pride is important but those qualities shouldn't be determinants for marriage clear thinking Muslims would agree.

Mishmish let me say that no suffering is greater than the other. The whole of the human race has suffered and none is greater than the other. I will again say yes women have suffered for so lon by the hands of ungrateful men, but the plight of women cannot be addressed as "greater" than the plight of those who have suffered from racism all of these are important issues. But my main point here was to discuss the issue with interracial marriages but if you wish to start a different thread in the men's section regarding the issue with women I'd be more than willing (Insha'llah so long as I'm here before break ends for us ) to discuss that with you.

I don't see negative quite the contrary. Unfortunately you don't know me as a person and don't have the luxury of knowing me and knowing what I like and dislike and knowing what kind of character I truly am you only know some of me here and vice versa. Let me also say that you mentioned that I believe its ridiculous for others to post their own experience no that is totally wrong. I say it's "ridiculous to compare one's suffering to another" in the sense of who has the most suffering like a game that to me is ridiculous.

Anyway I hope we can ove forward and come to some understanding from this issue Godwilling.

Mishmish point understood.

Mismish if I may, as your brother in Islam I would suggest to you in all goodness to practice on addressing the individual's remarks be it good or bad in accordance to what they exactly say and I will do the same for myself. You felt as if I denigrated you because I said you are "ignorant of racism" and according to the last post I've explained why I said that. you mentioned that we have choice. I understand that you believe people can freely choose whomever they want in regards to their spouse, but the point is we as Muslims must uphold the value of good character.

Yes I agree sometimes talking to some people it doesn't help and obviously here in this forum that truth is evident.  When we Muslims start evaluating those whom we mean to marry on the basis of their ethnicity or their wealth or what family they belong to we have in that moment, dissintergrate that core principle value that Quranic knowledge enstilled in us. the human species is composed of many classes of people from different walks of life and unfortunately not many families wish to share in that because of ethnocentric style philosophies.

I believe that talking sometimes does and doesn't help but I believe that the issue of discussing it is important nonetheless. I suggest to you Mishmish that you should focus on those issues which are important to you. As for me I'll kept discussing racism and other topics which need to be addressed. Again sister let me remind you that no injustice against a human is more important than  the other. We as people have experienced many things in life and we know from these negative experiences that the end result is the same: Negative.

Plain and simple......BW sister I understand the Christmas part but both Eid's are holidays themselves but I meant to say that gesture in the nices way possible to at least greet you with a salutation I wish you don't take everythingI say as analytical and personal.