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Daniel Dworsky View Drop Down
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Points: 777 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel Dworsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2005 at 3:11pm

"Do you know if the Jewish version of the Torah, the first five books,
is the same as either the Catholic version or the Protestant version?"

Hi Herjihad,

The OT is Identical for both Xtians and Jews.

The King James version has a few amusing mistakes in translation.
Michael Angelo's Moses was sculpted with horns as the result of one
misstranslation. Moses came down from the mount with "Karnei or"
(Rays of light) comming out of his head.
Keren is singular for both Ray or Horn
Karnie means (Rays of) Karnayim means horns. Oops.



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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Points: 1647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2005 at 8:07pm

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky Daniel Dworsky wrote:

"what else is considered to be direct from God in the Whole Bible (OT)?"

Actually it's all in the form of quotations Like..

"And god said, I am the Lord your god. You will have no other gods
before me... etc.

The Settlers site the Bible as the word of god which is in my opinion
bonkers. It's a narration. All of it second hand. If you choose to beleive it
it is a mattere of faith. .........

Do you mean a blind faith even though everyone knows its not the original one. How someone can put his trust on it and live a whole life by it? How can such a religion can even exist amoung wise people? I am totally surprised... May be there is something more to it. Either people don't know of it or probably they don't care about it and due to their common interests, just want to stick togather whatever is with them..... Definitely like to know more on it. Thanks anyway for your insights.
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Daniel Dworsky View Drop Down
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Points: 777 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel Dworsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2005 at 3:01am
Ahmad,

I think that free will was granted to us for a reason.
The Laws of Noah are laws that all agree on.
The Laws of Moses are laws that we all agree on.
These are the basic rules like the instructions you get with a new
toaster.
1. For use with 110 volts Alternating current only.
2. Do not bathe or sleep with this toaster...

Life for the religious person comes with a manual.
There is a possiblility that after the initial basic instructions the
manual does not fit precisely the needs of society today as with the
old days in some cases this applies to 1967
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Daniel Dworsky View Drop Down
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Points: 777 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel Dworsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2005 at 4:57am
I'm being really flippant here and I apologize if I've hurt anyone's
feelings. I just finished reading "Good Omens" It's sort of a Dante
meets Monte Python kinda book. I'm still giggling.The plot is that
the Anti Christ is mixed up at birth with another baby and is raised
by a normal family.


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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Points: 1647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2005 at 6:45am
I note what you have mentioned and rather appreciate. Another question now comes to my mind, is what is your opinion about Jesus being the true Prophet of God that He sent him to guide the lost sheep of Israel? Especially (I am assuming that you already differred on the christian's persepective about Jesus identity) with the Islamic perspective about Jesus. Blessings of Allah be on all of us. Cheers!
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Daniel Dworsky View Drop Down
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Points: 777 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel Dworsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2005 at 11:18am
Judaism has no mention or recollection of Jesus.

I like to think of Jesus as I do Louis Armstrong. A man who preached
love, taught harmony in an entertaining and breathtakingly beautiful
way. I can't imagine that he didn't exist since in my world neither are
gone.

I'm not joking here I think that as human beings we are capable of
great things all on our own. Allah created us to see what we would
do with the choices he gave us. Everything after the Ten
Commandments I take as a suggestion. There is npo evidence of
people wandering 40 years in the Sinai not so much as one artifact
has been found. Hmmmmmm.
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Points: 1647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2005 at 8:08pm

So, you mean to say that after Moses, no prophet came in Judaism to guide them to the right path, the path of Moses from which they might had divereted. That is strange, especially once not only Quran but OT also mentions several of them e.g. Prophet Yayha (John the Baptist), Younis (Yohana) etc (many more whose names I can't recall to translate them in English) . Of course there is a difference between ordinary good people (like you said Louis Armstrong) and a good people like these Prophets. Quran says that most these Prophets got killed by their own people of Judaism. What do say about them especially with regard to the story of John the Baptist which (according to NT) was the last in this chain before Jesus and got the same fate in the hands of his own people?

My second (or whatever the number is) question with regard to this is that "Is there any notion in the minds of Jews that since they are the chosen people of God, hence they would never enter hell?" If yes, from which evidence? I mean where is this promise of God with them? either in OT or any other book?
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Daniel Dworsky View Drop Down
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Points: 777 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel Dworsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2005 at 2:02am
Originally posted by AhmadJoyia AhmadJoyia wrote:

So, you mean to say that after Moses, no
prophet came�in Judaism to guide them to the right path, the path�of
Moses from which they might had divereted. That is strange, /P][/
QUOTE]
Not Really the central theme of Judaism is supposed to be "Tikun
Olam" Fixing the world (like a carpenter not an organized criminal)
For that, all you really need are the basic tools and a lot of moral
confidence or arrogance which ever comes first. Unfortunately the
powers that be confuse being fixed with being well, "FIXED" like a
dog is fixed this usually leads to murder. From Jesus to those boys
that died in Selma Mississippi at the hands of the Klan.
Or more recently Rachel Corey in Rafa two years ago.Rachel was not
Jewish but we talked about Tikun Olam.


[QUOTE=AhmadJoyia]

...not only Quran but OT also mentions
several of them e.g. Prophet Yayha (John the Baptist), Younis
(Yohana) etc )�.

J the B and those folks don't show up until the New Testiment.

[QUOTE=AhmadJoyia]

...since they[Jews] are the chosen people of
God, hence they would never enter hell?" If yes, from which evidence?
I mean where is this promise of God with them? either in OT or any
other book?



No mention of hell or heaven. a couple of angels in OT Book one but
that's about it. No one bothers to explain where they came from and
they are described as visitors/ strangers and that they are beautiful.
Lot protects them in his home and offers to send his daughters out
to the mob gathering outside his home in Sdom to protect these
strangers. Lot's wife afterwards becomes heavily salted and the
daughters do the wild thing with their dad. What a family.

Abraham demonstrates early on the problems of loyalties to family
and to our peers. What if they are rotten people? What happens
then what do you do? Let God handle it? How many times do you
say "Stand down" to one of your officers preparing to fire through
Civilians caught between you and a (Yes) still armed Palestinian
Policeman. He (the officer with pimples) keeps saying "You're mine
Your mine..."

In my experience you say nothing. You pull the barrel up 60 degrees
and hit him just as hard as you possibly can 4 inches below his heart.
That's Tikun Olam.

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