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The ANTI Christ

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2006 at 8:21pm

Anmne with all due respect, I believe that how you are presenting Islam is overly poeticizing the theological concepts that are firmly concrete. The whole concept of the Qur'an is that it is unchanging and is the infallible word of God but, yet, you keep statting that humanity is evolving. Even from a biological standpoint this is false so what are humans evolving from? Are you saying because we are changing as a whole society that the laws of the Qur'an are outdated?

The Qur'an is the last revelation of God plain and simple therefore humans are not ready or need any newer revelation! If you are a practicing Muslim then you would know this and wouldn't dispute it. I sense you are a pluralist and that is not bad but what you lack from what you're posting is the understanding of Islamic philosophy. I would hope rather say you are Muslim and then some reflect on the core principles of Islam.

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amlhabibi2000 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amlhabibi2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2006 at 7:14am

 

Salam Alaikoam

Though the Quran in itself as a book may seem changeless or we may want it to be changeless history has shown that all religious texts go through some revisision of some sort as time passes.

Such as new laws, ways of handling tests or challenges or difficulties.

It is like me saying there is only one recipe for soup or choclate cake when we know there are thousands.

I do not believe it is a sin to say the Quran or any Holy Book may need so revision or be updated!

This is my belief.

Education, Counseling, Consultation with Prayer and Living Prayer along with a Sacride Pilgrimage (Personal Hajj) made to your own life, your family, your community, your nation , your world is true Justice.

Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi

 

 

 

 

Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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ak_m_f View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ak_m_f Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2006 at 9:58am
Originally posted by amlhabibi2000 amlhabibi2000 wrote:


Alaikoam Salam


Lets face a fact any book can and will be rewritten many times and the Quran will be rewritten too. Inshallah and soon!


This book of life must be rewritten so excellent improvements in guidance may be recorded and shared.


It is not haram to say so as it is the will of Allah that it be so.


Essentially all the stories, Surah's and Ayats in the Quran need to be revisited and considered very carefully and brought up to date.


The reason is that some guidance in the Quran and Bible may cause more harm than good and must be brought up to date as I mentioned.


People must be informed of the updates and the Imams must adjust their teaching methods accordingly to accommodate the new improvements.


People with questions on the updates need ask their Imam, Scholars and Educators.


Most importantly the Human Rights Act need be one of the corner stones of the New Quran.



This is all of course my belief and opinion take what you will leave what you will.



Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi







If you dont like the book then make your own religion, you can be a prophet
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DavidC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2006 at 10:15am
Originally posted by ak_m_f ak_m_f wrote:

If you dont like the book then make your own religion, you
can be a prophet


LOL! Where have you been
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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ak_m_f View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ak_m_f Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2006 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Originally posted by ak_m_f ak_m_f wrote:

If you dont like the book then make your own religion, you
can be a prophet


LOL! Where have you been


yea i was away.... now i m bck
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2006 at 2:38pm

Anne again with all due respect, you are making a new religious belief orperhaps a sect which is along the lines of Baha'i. You made the mtetaphorical example of using "the belief that there is only one recepie of choclate cake when there are thousands" is flawed. From your post obvious you believe in one God, so let me say how do you hold the belief that there is only one God when there are others who believe there are thousands of gods?

Sure that as time progrss mankind too, will progress but as you mention in contradictory fashion that the Qur'an is changeless hence why need to update with a newer version? No offense, but not only is this somewhat blasphemy to the true concept of Islam but somwhat sacreligious. Allah states clearly that this is a revelationof him where past revelations have been obscured by mankind's ignorance. How you answer beckons the thought that perhaps God updates the same message over and over. We don't need a newer message. The message is clear: There is only one God.

I however agree that we as humans can change but you areseriously messing with dangerous thoughts here.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amlhabibi2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2006 at 4:40pm

 

 

Alaikoam Salam

Brother and sisters too!

As I see it all Life is an expression of the evolution of Islam there for there are no sects it is simply other ways of expressing Islam.

Even Mohammed PBUH did not start a new religion he reaffirmed the foundations that have been since the beginning of time called Islam.

Some people may want to call their religion Christian, Jewish, Bahai, Hindu, Seik however it all streams from Allah and it is all  expressions of the evolution of Islam!

What Mankind does with the Message (S) is quiet another question is it not.

How you express Islam and others express Islam may be different however the foundations stay the same ie do unto others as you would have them do unto you, care for yourself and the poor, do not kill anyone, do not covet your neighbours wife or property.

However the law an eye for an eye is out dated.

To say we invent a new religion is false however what each of us does regardless of who we are is we re-invent Islam according to our lives and even those who say they adhere to the traditional version of Islam still adjust Islam to meet their and their Family and Community needs.

There is nothing wrong with this practice as in developing strategies that work for us we become healthier, happier and the spin off created by our well being benifits ourselves, our families, communities our Nation and World.

So yes Islam is being rewritten if you will and it will always be rewritten for Islam is in a constant state of perfecting itself through our efforts inshallah a juste people and juste society will emmerge inshallah!

The only dangerous ground I see is saying Islam is written in stone! Islam has been, is and will always evolve and become better as will Mankind, we have to the world continuing as we know it depends on this evolution of Islam.

There is hope and it begins with each one of us becoming educated, healthier, happier, more caring and compassionate and more environmentally conscious and friendly.

Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi



Edited by amlhabibi2000
Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2006 at 5:39pm

Anne what you're saying does not solve the issue.

I'm all for pluralism but not everyone can see a correlation between a humanist ideology and monotheistic pluralism. Yes I believe that we all as humans can make advancements as a people but to say that the laws of the Qur'an are outdated is ridiculous!

For instance your only example is "an eye for an eye"

What about the laws of inheritence?

What about the laws regarding orphans?

What about the laws regarding men and women in marriage?

Surely such laws are common and relate to our times and you cannot sit there and justify their demise with "newer" laws just because you feel that as a society we change. Again you have yet to address my comment when I mentioned about the belief in One God. You say there are many paths but Buddhist don't even share the path of monotheism so how can the end be the same? Buddhist in the orthodox belief don't even believe in a heaven but reincarnation and the eventual demise of thr self once a state of ultimate knowledge is attained which is called Nirvana. Sikhs perhpas share similar goals as Muslims, Jews and Christians but theologically and according to our doctrines eschology we do not have the same goals per say.

Perhaps on the humanitarian level yes all religions strive to attain peace and tranquolity among other humans but the type of pluralism you preach is not orthodox Islam. God has set the laws in motion in the universe so the decree is either obey what we comprehend mentally or disobey but by no menas should we say that God's laws are outdated. The onlky possible for laws to be renewed is a newer revelation and a newer revelation is the infinite knowledge obtained by a newer prophet, something in which is not possible since Muhammad has declared he is the last.

You say we are all prophets. Perhaps the mechanism in which we receive revelation yes we are no different than Muhammad or Jesus because we all possess the same biological mechanisms of reception. But, not all of us has the mental capacity to withstand the infinite wisdom of God, hence the unique prophetic missions. We all cannot carry the same duties as prophets of old had carried. We are not trained. We are not taught from birth the duties of prophethood nor do we have the consistent wisdom nor the spiritual desire. So Anne, I understand your noble ideology of p[luralism and everyone is right but everyone is not right. Just like there is one law in the universe and one end to our path so must to be the word of God and the being of God.

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