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herjihad View Drop Down
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Points: 2473 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herjihad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2006 at 9:14am

Bismillah,

I did a search online.  Here are some relevant passages about fetal development.  However, I did not find the quote for the fact that Allah, SWT, puts our souls in the bodies of our mothers at three months of embryonic development.  These are all the results from a search for the word "clot".

If someone else knows where this is, please post it.

The Holy Qur'an speaks about "clot" in no less than 11 different places

1.In Surah AL-BAQARA chapter number 2 verse number 233
"And the mothers should suckle their children for two whole years for him who desires to make complete the time of suckling; and their maintenance and their clothing must be-- borne by the father according to usage; no soul shall have imposed upon it a duty but to the extent of its capacity; neither shall a mother be made to suffer harm on account of her child, nor a father on account of his child, and a similar duty (devolves) on the (father's) heir, but if both desire weaning by mutual consent and counsel, there is no blame on them, and if you wish to engage a wet-nurse for your children, there is no blame on you so long as you pay what you promised for according to usage; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah and know that Allah sees what you do. "
Go to Surah AL-BAQARA chpater number 2 verse number 233
Go to the arabic of surah AL-BAQARA chapter number 2 verse number 233
Click here to play the arabic for this surah.

2.In Surah AL-BAQARA chapter number 2 verse number 259
"Or the like of him (Uzair) who passed by a town, and it had fallen down upon its roofs; he said: When will Allah give it life after its death? So Allah caused him to die for a hundred years, then raised him to life. He said: How long have you tarried? He said: I have tarried a day, or a part of a day. Said He: Nay! you have tarried a hundred years; then look at your food and drink-- years have not passed over it; and look at your ass; and that We may make you a sign to men, and look at the bones, how We set them together, then clothed them with flesh; so when it became clear to him, he said: I know that Allah has power over all things. "
Go to Surah AL-BAQARA chpater number 2 verse number 259
Go to the arabic of surah AL-BAQARA chapter number 2 verse number 259
Click here to play the arabic for this surah.

3.In Surah AN-NISA chapter number 4 verse number 5
"And do not give away your property which Allah has made for you a (means of) support to the weak of understanding, and maintain them out of (the profits of) it, and clothe them and speak to them words of honest advice. "
Go to Surah AN-NISA chpater number 4 verse number 5
Go to the arabic of surah AN-NISA chapter number 4 verse number 5
Click here to play the arabic for this surah.

4.In Surah AL-MAEDA chapter number 5 verse number 89
"Allah does not call you to account for what is vain in your oaths, but He calls you to account for the making of deliberate oaths; so its expiation is the feeding of ten poor men out of the middling (food) you feed your families with, or their clothing, or the freeing of a neck; but whosoever cannot find (means) then fasting for three days; this is the expiation of your oaths when you swear; and guard your oaths. Thus does Allah make clear to you His communications, that you may be Fateful. "
Go to Surah AL-MAEDA chpater number 5 verse number 89
Go to the arabic of surah AL-MAEDA chapter number 5 verse number 89
Click here to play the arabic for this surah.

5.In Surah AL-HAJJ chapter number 22 verse number 5
"O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs). "
Go to Surah AL-HAJJ chpater number 22 verse number 5
Go to the arabic of surah AL-HAJJ chapter number 22 verse number 5
Click here to play the arabic for this surah.

6.In Surah AL-HAJJ chapter number 22 verse number 63
"Seest thou not that Allah sends down rain from the sky, and forthwith the earth becomes clothed with green? for Allah is He Who understands the finest mysteries, and is well-acquainted (with them). "
Go to Surah AL-HAJJ chpater number 22 verse number 63
Go to the arabic of surah AL-HAJJ chapter number 22 verse number 63
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7.In Surah AL-MUMENOON chapter number 23 verse number 14
"Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create! "
Go to Surah AL-MUMENOON chpater number 23 verse number 14
Go to the arabic of surah AL-MUMENOON chapter number 23 verse number 14
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8.In Surah AN-NOOR chapter number 24 verse number 58
"O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions: before morning prayer; the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the late-night prayer: these are your three times of undress: outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other: Thus does Allah make clear the Signs to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom. "
Go to Surah AN-NOOR chpater number 24 verse number 58
Go to the arabic of surah AN-NOOR chapter number 24 verse number 58
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9.In Surah AL-GHAFIR chapter number 40 verse number 67
"It is He Who has created you from dust then from a sperm-drop, then from a leech-like clot; then does he get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old,- though of you there are some who die before;- and lets you reach a Term appointed; in order that ye may learn wisdom. "
Go to Surah AL-GHAFIR chpater number 40 verse number 67
Go to the arabic of surah AL-GHAFIR chapter number 40 verse number 67
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10.In Surah AL-QIYAMA chapter number 75 verse number 38
"Then did he become a leech-like clot; then did (Allah) make and fashion (him) in due proportion. "
Go to Surah AL-QIYAMA chpater number 75 verse number 38
Go to the arabic of surah AL-QIYAMA chapter number 75 verse number 38
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11.In Surah AL-ALAQ chapter number 96 verse number 2
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood: "
Go to Surah AL-ALAQ chpater number 96 verse number 2
Go to the arabic of surah AL-ALAQ chapter number 96 verse number 2
Click here to play the arabic for this surah.




Edited by herjihad
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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rami View Drop Down
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Points: 2549 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2006 at 10:02am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

Allah in the Quran calls mankind an animal and at the same time he says what makes us above this is our soul.

Once the soul is put into the body then we are considered human and this is the islamic basis for the ruling. Please dont bring western notions of life into this they have no basis unless they agree with islam.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Angela View Drop Down
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Points: 2555 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2006 at 10:20am

Sorry Herjihad, Rami

But I have yet to see the verse in the Quran that says we don't get our souls until three months?

Where is the verse?

The divine spark creates life...God creates life...

So, show me the verse that says three months???  The ones in the previous posting say he creates us from a sperm drop.  That to me would mean conception...not three months later.
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Jenni View Drop Down
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Points: 705 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jenni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2006 at 2:19pm
Has anyone discussed in this thread the option of good birth control. I am not talking about for unmarried people, but for married adults. Many pregnancies that are unwanted could be prevented with condoms, birthcontrol pills, or the I.U.D. And if a woman has health problems and does not want to get pregnant or she is depressed or otherwise emotianally unsound birht control would be a far cheaper and safer solution than an unwanted pregnancy. I think once you are to the point of being pregnant and you are two resposible married people you have to keep the baby(pregnancy) whether it is convienient for you or not and abortion is not an option Islamically.That is only my opinion and I agree with the school of thought that says abortion is not allowed except in extreme cases such as the life of the Mother is at risk or the woman became pregnant because of rape ect. A last option say if the marraige is very unstable, or thier may be a divorce is sending the baby to live with and be raised by another family member. Say a sister, or brother in law. An aunt maybe. And you could still be in the childs life as much as possible but not have the challenge of raising it alone. Peace
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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herjihad View Drop Down
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Points: 2473 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herjihad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2006 at 2:53pm

Bismillah,

That's a great point, Jenni.  After you have the baby, ISA, Leen, then you must use an excellent birth control method to avoid this situation if you need to.

Angela, no.  That's the best search I can do for now.  ISA, it will come to me.  It is definitely in the Tafsir of the Holy Quran subscribed to by many Muslims, but where it is... don't know.
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Points: 2549 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2006 at 12:06am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

The fatwah clearly states the soul enters the body after 120 days,

The great Hanafi Faqeeh Ibn Abidin States in his Radd al-Muhtar:

�The soul enters the foutus at one hundred & twenty days (4 months), as established by the Hadith� (Radd al-Muhtar, 1/202)

Ibn Abidin (Allah have Mercy on him) also states the prohibition of this gruesome act in his treatise �Radd al-Muhtar�:

�If a woman intends to abort her pregnancy, then the Fuqaha have said: If the period of the soul being blown into the foetus has elapsed, it will be impermissible� (Radd al-Muhtar, 5/276).

This is enough to proove the islamic position, if you would like to read the hadith for your self you will have to wait for herjihad to provide it.

you have to diferentiate between what life form exists beffore the soul enters the body and after it enters it. In this the Islamic position is diferent than that of western one.


Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Angela View Drop Down
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Points: 2555 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2006 at 9:38am

So, its just Fatwas???  No word from the Prophet and no verses in the Quran???  I see.

Rami, you might not like it, but there are a few, just a few things in the West that are not completely wrong.   Preserving life and taking responsibility for the life you've made is one of them. 

My religion states that procreation is a divine duty given to us by God.  Therefore, to kill a child he has created it an almost unforgiveable act, there are circumstances, incest and endangerment of the mother where it can be forgiven.  The purpose of procreation is to give a body to the soul....therefore, you are robbing a soul of its chance at life when you have an abortion.

Maybe that's not Islam, but God did not give us the ability to have children to butcher them.  If you don't want children, then use birth control.  You shouldn't be having sex outside of marriage anyway, so talk to your husband about it first.  There are women out there just like me that are more than willing to take the unwanted children of these women.  In the end, only God has a the right to say what's murder and what isn't.  Man cannot make his own rules.
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Points: 2549 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2006 at 12:54pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

So, its just Fatwas???  No word from the Prophet and no verses in the Quran???  I see.

It is a formal legal ruling by one of islams legal schools of thought, this is binding on muslims to follow, for you it is enough to know this is the islamic position you are not in a state to correct a scholar on any matter even if the hadith is presented before you.

An ethical person would not stoop to throwing doubt or acusing a well known Muslim scholar of making a ruling not based on the Quran and sunnah.

Need i remind you this forum is islamic so when a muslim asks for advice they are asking for the islamic position nothing else, if you disagree please take the discussion to another thread otherwise your advice in this thread is considered a misguidance.

Angela you are one of the very few people given access to the islamic sections, please be more mindfull.


Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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