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Ketchup 
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 Posted: 12 February 2006 at 12:04pm |
 firewall3 wrote:
ok ketchup. honestly, maybe you really didn't have the access to muslim vocal voice, even with free press. so, i give you some -- there has been numerous international condemnations on terrorism by muslims.
- Fiqh Council of North America issued a Fatwa against terrorism, stating that people who commit it in the name of Islam were "criminals, not `martyrs."' ref
- Leading clerics in Saudi Arabia have issued a Fatwa, stating terror attacks are serious criminal acts. the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Shaykh Abd al-Aziz bin Abdallah Aal al-Shaykh, said "These acts have nothing to do with jihad for the sake of God". (note: Riyadh, SA has been striked by triple suicide attacks) ref
- Renowned Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi denounced terrorism, saying "I categorically go against a committed Muslim's embarking on such attacks. Islam never allows a Muslim to kill the innocent and the helpless" ref
- Leading Muslim scholars meeting in Amman Conference banned killing in the name of Islam. King Abdullah II denounced all kinds of religious extremism. ref
- OIC Mecca Summit, statement "How can they (terrorists) speak and act for such perverted ideas entrenched as they are in ignorance, isolationism, hatred, and bloodletting?...we are also called upon to redouble and orchestrate international efforts to combat terrorism" ref
- The International Counter-terrorism Conference, affirmed that terrorism continually threatens peace, security and stability, adding that there is no justification for terrorist acts which are always condemned. International Center for Combating Terrorism plan was accepted. ref
and many more.. i remember in Malaysia we have marched for "Give Peace A Chance." and you know my stance, i condemn terrorism in all it's form.
& honestly, i'm afraid my God will be angry if i'm too hard on you. so sorry ketchup if i was too hard. hope ur ok. wallahu a'lam (God Knows Best).
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Firewall3 you can be as harsh as you like on me, you have my permission and thankyou for taking the time to research the links...
Its still the same thing though, I read through them and it is still just your leaders being the spokesperson not the people themselves... this has always been the issue.
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ops154
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Posted: 12 February 2006 at 12:07pm |
Mishmish wrote:
Ops154: When someone goes into a convenience store in your neighborhood and guns down the clerk working there, do YOU go on the evening news and apologise for the killer's actions? Do you personally apologise to everyone in the state where you live who has been a victim of crime? If a Baptist goes out and rapes a child, are all Baptists confronted by the media and forced to explain why and say sorry?
Of course not, yet for some convoluted reason all Americans and Europeans believe that it is every Muslims responsibility to apologise continuously for the actions of a few. This is not expected of any other group, race, religion, or country, so why then do you expect it of Muslims?
Muslims have condemned every act of terrorism, every act of violence, and done so publicly over and over again. Yet it is still not enough. It will never be enough because you don't want it to be.
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If someone robbed that store and said it was in the name of ops154 (well my real name) then yes, I would be out there everywhere saying it's bull and they are acting alone. Babists do not go about saying "In the name of Jesus I rape this child". I'm not saying that you have to say anything for the wacko's who go out and kill but what I would like to see is someone standing up for Islam. It does seem to be the only religion where people at this time are killing others in the name of thier lord. Don't get me wrong, a lot of religions have been like this in the past, think of England back when the church ruled. People were killed left and right for God. We have just a couple preachers now days (phelps and fallwell to name two) that go about preaching hate.
I'm not saying any of this to inflame or offend anyone. I'm sorry if that's the way it's coming across. I actually appreciate the fact that some of you are repling to me and discussing it. We in the west don't see mass protesting or people so enraged that they are willing to burn cars and chant about killing the terrorists like we do with the calling of the cartoon writers to be killed.
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Ketchup
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Posted: 12 February 2006 at 12:07pm |
Mishmish wrote:
U.S. Forces Want Al-Jazeera Out Of Fallujah
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Al-Jazeera logo
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By Mustafa Abdel-Halim, IOL Correspondent
CAIRO, April 9 (IslamOnline.net) - The United States asked al-Jazeera team to leave Fallujah as one of conditions for reaching a settlement to the bloody stand-off in the besieged western Baghdad town Friday, April 9.
"American forces declared al-Jazeera must leave before any progress is made to settle the Fallujah stand-off," al-Jazeera director general Wadah Khanfar told IslamOnline.net, citing sources close to the Iraqi Governing Council.
Khanfar, the former Baghdad bureau chairman of the station, declined to speculate on reasons for putting al-Jazeera departure as "part of solving the crisis".
He also denied receiving "any threats or notification statements" from the U.S. occupation forces recently.
Khanfar also dismissed charges of bias in the coverage of the Fallujah raids, which resulted in more than 400 people killed including women and children.
"We are just carrying out our work as professionally as possible. We describe the situation on the ground as is," Khanfar said.
"We try to be objective. The situation there bear a sign of humanitarian crisis. We just shed light on this," he stressed.
A correspondent for the Qatar-based station - speaking live from Fallujah - had warned Friday against a "humanitarian crisis" in the town if the U.S. soldiers did not end their attack on the densely-populated areas.
He said that local inhabitants are furious over the inaction of Arab and Muslim countries as well as the international community.
Only Media Outlet
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"We are just carrying out our work as professionally as possible," Khanfar (Pic courtesy of al-Jazeera.net)
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The channel - Khanfar added, is probably the only media in Fallujah, where its correspondent seized hours of the channel�s air time to convey the deteriorating situation over the past few days.
The correspondent in Fallujah said that even besieged local inhabitants of the town follow the latest developments in their bastion of resistance through al-Jazeera.
Corpses are littered in the streets as U.S. warplanes hit the only hospital and other makeshift medical centers, he added.
As Brig Gen Mark Kimmitt, the deputy director of U.S. military operations in Iraq, was speaking by phone on al-Jazeera and insisting that American forces declared a unilateral ceasefire in Fallujah, the channel was airing live images of continued air raids by F16 fighter jets on residential neighborhoods of the town.
Kimmitt later dismissed the coverage of the channel for the crisis as a "series of lies". However, asked by al-Jazeera anchor about the live images, the U.S. commander said he was not accusing al-Jazeera of faking the images, but rather �looked at things differently�.
He said the attacks by F16 fighter jets and helicopters were meant to take out �armed insurgents firing at our troops�. The anchor reminded Kimmitt, however, that �live coverage showed children and women killed by the missiles, not armed insurgents�.
Observers see the U.S. highly unusual demand for al-Jazeera to leave Fallujah as a sign of crisis of credibility the U.S. forces face in the eyes of the Iraqis as well as people all over the Arab and Islamic world.
Known for its quality programs, professionalism and independence, "the CNN of the Arab world" is the most-watched channel in this part of the world.
Defiant
Khanfar expressed hopes - brimming with fears - that the three correspondents now in Fallujah "would not meet the same fate of Tarik Ayyuob".
On April 8, 2003, one year ago, U.S. forces hit with missiles al-Jazeera office in Baghdad, killing Ayyoub just a few hours before rolling into the capital.
The channel officials charged the missile attack was a "deliberate" strike, recalling that the office of the station had been hit in November 2001 during the U.S.-led assault on the Taliban regime in Afghanistan.
Khanfar, however, put up a defiant tone, saying the station�s team - also including a number of engineers and photographers - would not get out of the town "voluntarily".
"We are not a political party in the crisis. We are just media guys," Khanfar said.
Having the station�s headquarters, Qatar also plays host to the U.S Central Command, which directs the military invasion of Iraq as of March 20. It has one of the largest U.S. military bases in the Arab Gulf.
Strained Relations
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U.S. Marines fire mortar shells in the outskirts of Fallujah
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Relations between the channel and Washington have been always running on a collision course.
Al-Jazeera website was downed by hackers since Tuesday, March 25, a few days after Washington and London blasted the station for its footages of dead U.S. and British soldiers and captured PoWs.
During his visit in October last year, Qatari Emir and the principal shareholder of al-Jazeera, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani, was reportedly asked to put pressure on the channel to curb what the U.S. called "anti-American coverage".
U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld claimed on November 25 he has seen reports suggesting al-Jazeera have cooperated with Iraqi resistance fighters attacking U.S. troops.
"They are hurting us," Rumsfeld was quoted as saying on Al-Jazeera and Dubai-based Al-Arabiya station.
On November 24, the U.S.-handpicked Governing Council banned Al-Arabiya from working in Iraq, charging it with incitement to murder.
Abu Dhabi TV also announced in April last year that its Baghdad bureau had been hit and broadcast a live report showing its camera position under attack.
With 19 journalists killed in Iraq, 14 during the war, five in the aftermath, and two missing presumed dead, 2003 was one of the bloodiest years in recent times for war reporters.
Sixty-four journalists were killed across the world in 2003, 19 of them in Iraq, according to a report published by the International Press Institute (IPI) in March 10.
On August 18, in yet another crime against journalists in occupied Iraq, U.S. troops shot dead an award-winning Reuters cameraman while he was filming on Sunday, August 17, near a U.S.-run detention camp in Baghdad.
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Ok copying and pasting is all the rage here but are you going to give an opinion?
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Mishmish
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Posted: 12 February 2006 at 12:10pm |
[/QUOTE] By your very quote are you implying that muslims aren't a united front? [/QUOTE]
????? What is it that you are trying to read in to what I said? You are from the United Kingdom, so are you therefore by default united with every criminal, degenerate, liar, and thief who is also from the United Kingdom? Of course not. Are you expected to take responsibility for their actions? Of course not.
Islam is not a police state. We can no more force all Muslims or those who call themselves Muslims to behave in a certain way than any other religion can. The West is full of prisons full of prisoners that are Christians. Can Christianity force these people to behave in a certain way?
God gave all people freedom of choice. We cannot control what any person does, we can only control what we do. As a religion we can speak out against wrong actions, but we cannot control every Muslim. If it were that easy, there would be no crime, no wars, no injustice....
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It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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ops154
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Posted: 12 February 2006 at 12:15pm |
Mishmish
it was a mess there I'll admit. Did either of us get the entire story? No!!! If you believe everything you hear on Al Jezeera than you are no better then the hillbillies who believe everything they hear on Foxnews. Has Al Jezeera ever posted anything good that America has done? I don't know as I don't have access to it so please let me know because the stories I've seen is always or heard about are not speaking highly of anything America does.
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Mishmish
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Posted: 12 February 2006 at 12:18pm |
[/QUOTE]If someone robbed that store and said it was in the name of ops154 (well my real name) then yes, I would be out there everywhere saying it's bull and they are acting alone. Babists do not go about saying "In the name of Jesus I rape this child". I'm not saying that you have to say anything for the wacko's who go out and kill but what I would like to see is someone standing up for Islam. It does seem to be the only religion where people at this time are killing others in the name of thier lord. Don't get me wrong, a lot of religions have been like this in the past, think of England back when the church ruled. People were killed left and right for God. We have just a couple preachers now days (phelps and fallwell to name two) that go about preaching hate.
I'm not saying any of this to inflame or offend anyone. I'm sorry if that's the way it's coming across. I actually appreciate the fact that some of you are repling to me and discussing it. We in the west don't see mass protesting or people so enraged that they are willing to burn cars and chant about killing the terrorists like we do with the calling of the cartoon writers to be killed.
[/QUOTE]
And Muslims have stood up and said OVER and OVER and OVER again that this is not Islam but the act of a few individuals who do not represent our religion.
And yes, Christians do commit crimes in the name of religion: abortion clinic bombings, the IRA and England.... I do not see, nor is it even required that all Christians apologise for these acts. President Bush stated that he believes he is doing the work of Jesus and God. So, wouldn't the war in Iraq be a part of his work for God? Thus he is killing innocent people for God. In fact, some of his military leaders have openly stated this.
The religion of Islam is killing no one. People are killing people. Period.
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It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Mishmish
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Posted: 12 February 2006 at 12:24pm |
I don't believe everything I hear from any person place or thing except the Quran. But I do know that what we see and hear in the west is very different than what is seen and heard everywhere else in the world.
If you want an accurate picture of Al Jazeera, rent the documentarty "Control Room". It might open your eyes a bit.... In fact, the press liason for the U.S. military who is featured in Control Room has since gotten out of the military and will be working as a correspondent for Al Jazeera America on satellite.
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It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Ketchup
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Posted: 12 February 2006 at 12:26pm |
Mishmish wrote:
I don't believe everything I hear from any person place or thing except the Quran. But I do know that what we see and hear in the west is very different than what is seen and heard everywhere else in the world.
If you want an accurate picture of Al Jazeera, rent the documentarty "Control Room". It might open your eyes a bit.... In fact, the press liason for the U.S. military who is featured in Control Room has since gotten out of the military and will be working as a correspondent for Al Jazeera America on satellite.
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Ok good suggestion but I bet it is riddled with bias!
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