Danish drawings |
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Wrangel
Newbie Joined: 31 January 2006 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Hi Servetus, I am far from qualified to answer this question. I don't know what the US first amendment is (might have an idea, but would have to google), how Danish law compares to anything what the Germans has, I'm cluesless. In Denmark there is a hardly ever used blasphemi paragraph (I mean last used 1938 and then some time in the 1960's). There is a stronger "racist paragraph" used more commenly. This one treats religious rights, racial right, national right, right based on sexual preference, and most likely others, equally. What is very clear to me though. Is that the Danish newspaper was well within its right to publish the drawings. For better or for worse. The insult/threat would have to be much closer to a deaththreat to some group of people to be punishable by law. Let me also point out that Danish prosecution, are, by law not permitted to bring a case to court. If they are not confident it will lead to a conviction. I don't know how that rule applies to other countries. Basically, a Danish prosecutor cannot bring to court, a case he might be intertested to hear the views of the court on. I do not know the detail differences between Danish and Swedish law. I believe Swedish law has got a similar racist paragraph. There is currently a case where a Swedish fundmental priest, in a cermon said: Homosexuals are a cancer tumour on society. In the first lower court the priests got a sentence. In the second court he was set free. Case has yet to be decided in the highest Swedish court. Two things here. Religious people are allowed to say what newspapers cannot print. A newspaper, radio station would never be able to print this. Theyt surely would have been convicted. Second thing to note that a priest might get away, claiming this was founded on holy scriptures. Second thing to note, in order to become a legal issue. The opioning expressed goes far beyond the opionions expressed by the drawings. ------------------------------------------------------------ - "Since there is a war against extremists, both physically as well as academically, any opportunity through which they can "win" the feeling of masses through emotioanl incitation, they would not let it slip away." AhmanJoyia, you cannot underestimate the emitional reaction that extremist might bring. Mark clearly stated this in his post. From any casual person in the west, with no or little interest in the Muslim world. Then Muslim inspired terrorism, flag or embassy burnings, are horrifying. Acts of violence must be unconditionally condemned. At any time at any place. Muslims cannot defend themself against acts of violence with any other means then to condemn them. Danes cannot defend themself against acts of insults without condeming them. My wife and me sit and watch TV news. We see Muslims burn Danish flag, we see Muslim burn Danish embassy. We sit there in silence. Suddenly my wife says: "I hate all Muslims" I say you can't hate all Muslims. All Muslims don't burn Danish flags. Muslims are people just like you and me. Wife sits quit. Then she says "Well, you are happy, you don't have to take the train to work." Maybe I will be able to convince my wife she is wrong. But she does bring up a couple of valid points. Nobody is safe from terror anywhere. And the emotions stirred from that should never ever be underestimated. These emotions cannot be dismissed. These emotions must be taken seriously. These emotions fuels conflict. I understand that you can do about as little, as I can do about my lunatics. Virtually nothing but condem. Is there anything else I can do?
Edited by Wrangel |
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liberty
Groupie Joined: 08 February 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Its not correct to view Islam through the monocule of "Christianity", I suppose. Islam provides the moral ethics of politics to govern and not just any specific form of government, it could be democracy, whatever form of it a particular society chooses to live by. I am not sure of your definition of democracy and exactly of the nature of democracy in Turkey, to comment on another post. In your version of democracy would all laws decided on by the people be subject to approval with Islamic Law. That is, in Turkey for instance, can the people make a law that goes against the teachings of Islam, against what is stated in the Koran? In your version of democracy does Islamic Law trump democratically determined laws? As an example, does Islam allow abortions, which are legal in many western democracies? |
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liberty
Groupie Joined: 08 February 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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"Forty per cent of the British Muslims surveyed said they backed introducing sharia in parts of Britain," http://www.islamicity.com/m/news_frame.asp?Frame=1&refer enceID=24778 This quote is taken from an article posted on IslamiCity.com, the host of this forum. This is what makes me, as a Westerner who loves living in a secular society, very nervous. We do not want Islamic Law in our lands and here is proof that many Muslims do. |
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Tim Evans
Senior Member Joined: 31 January 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 273 |
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liberty, Why is it necessary to get drawn into this debate? It is all part of the hype to create the impression that there is a big threat. There isn't, except the one coming from the government with its 'big brother' laws. What percentage of the British or European population are Muslim according to the survey? So, what percentage of the population is the 40%? And anyway why would it matter if we had Sharia for Muslims if that's what they want. What has it got to do with anyone else. In fact the sooner we get round to sorting out this and other systems of accommodating all the minority groups the less nervous everyone would be. BUT IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN BECAUSE THE STATE DON'T WANT US TO BE LESS NERVOUS. Cone on folks, get a grip! P.s Did the survey ask what percentage of Muslims wanted to live in peace with everyone else? Edited by Tim Evans |
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Tim in Britain
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Angel
Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Status: Offline Points: 6641 |
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If that happens then Christians in the ME can do the same but I do not see that happening.
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~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Ketchup
Senior Member Joined: 10 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 349 |
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hu??? Its a breakfast cereal I have every morning GRRRRRRRR! If you didnt like the taste of currants and sultanas you would find it a pest removing them too. Edited by Ketchup |
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"The days followed one another patiently. Right back at the beginning of the multiverse they had tried all passing at the same time, and it hadn't worked."
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Ketchup
Senior Member Joined: 10 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 349 |
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That means ... I was right.QUOTE] No it means I think you are way off the mark.. excuse the pun. Would the St. Georges Cross be more acceptable to your tastes?? I do not find our flag offensive so why so touchy? I use it as my avatar for everything, this place being no acception. I suggest those that think it is for ulterior motives really should get thicker skins.. thats almost as bad as a direct attack on an innocent breakfast cereal. |
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"The days followed one another patiently. Right back at the beginning of the multiverse they had tried all passing at the same time, and it hadn't worked."
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liberty
Groupie Joined: 08 February 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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In fact the sooner we get round to sorting out this and other systems of accommodating all the minority groups the less nervous everyone would be. Accommodating minority groups... what does that mean? Every person living in the United States lives by the same laws, of course laws do vary somewhat from state to state, but Jews live by the same laws as atheists as Christians! If a small number of citizens wish to follow Islamic Law then by all means follow it but it will not become law of the land to satisfy some minority. You seem to think that a group would be satisfied with changing the laws for a small group or a certain geographic region. That is how it would begin and then hopes of expanding it would grow. Nope, not going for that. Only secular and democratically determined laws for me in the United States, thanks. I trust people who love their freedom above all else and want them to decide upon laws, and not to be determined by some book written over a thousand years ago whether it is the Koran, Bible, etc. Again, if you are not happy with the secular laws of this country, move to a state which has the Islamic Laws that are desired! This, of course is meant for the 40%. And I am sure that is how most of the English feel and if this push continues there will be a serious backlash for Muslim citizens in the West. |
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