Women-Led Friday Prayer

Bismillah,

Modern day applications: Does anyone disagree that women can lead women in salat; that it is better indeed this way because prayer in congregation has more blessings?

We gather for meetings, Quran groups, play groups, tea, etc. I usually prefer to have a leader in the prayer because we are more symbolically united as a group, and it feels that way spiritually.

Another issue: Why does the leader have to be in front? I read a hadith years ago about the prophet Muhammad, pbuh, praying beside Aysha in their crowded room because it was small.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

>>>Thanks for your elaborated response. Though the logical approach that have been presented is quite impressive; especially with regard to questionable chain of narrations. However, once further analysis is done merely on the account of the same hadith, I have little difficulty in understanding in some of the points discussed and need your help.<<<

Alhamdulillah you are Impressed with the logic brother but unfortunatly what i posted is not my writing but that of Imam Zaid Shakir, it is part of a larger article which specificaly replies to the article sisummah is quoting from.

An Examination of the Issue of Female Prayer

I must add that the article is not simply raising a logical argument but also principles in Ususl al fiqh, the issue is if there is evidence to establish the legal ruling that women can lead men in prayer, this is the only way this issue can be looked at from a legal perspective in Islam. It is something that directly relates to worship and therefor Bidah in the religion.

I request br that you read the article beffore i attemtp to respond to the points you have raised.

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

Bro Rami,

Though I had scanned this article before as well, however, I have read it again and didn't find anything different than what you have already posted here beside some further details, which I think really don't answer my questions. Regards

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum AhmadJoyia

I am sorry for the dely in writing this.

I must first quote the following beffore atempting to say anything else.

What I write below is based on the Sunni legal and linguistic tradition, as it has been historically understood. This is the tradition of the Islamic orthodoxy, which remains to this day, the only religious orthodoxy, which has not been marginalized to the fringes of the faith community it represents.

Imam Zaid shakir has studied the Islamic sciences in syria and in morroco, so when the above is said it must be understood that anything other than this is an unqualified opinion not of sunni Islam, certainly we can ask to learn but ultimatly our opnion can be nothing but unqualified until we endevour to study the islamic sciences.

Of the evidences ushered by Reda, only one is substantive to the issue at hand. Another is ancillary. The rest are considerations that would affect how rulings relating to gender issues might be implemented. However, they have no real weight in establishing a particular ruling in the divine law.

Meaning under the islamic sciences no point has been raised that is worthy of consideration for making a legal ruling in Islam. To properly understand this we must first gain a proper understanding of the islamic sciences formost of which is Usul al Fiqh. Laws in Islam are not simply made based on logical arguments there are many other sciences and Issues that need to be considered at the same time.

The issues with which the scholars of al Usul are primarily concerned include the following:

Logic and its predications
Linguistics
Commands and Prohibitions
Comprehensive al 'Amm and Particular terms al Khass
Inconclusive al Mujmall and Determined concepts al Mubayyan
Abrogation al Naskh
Deeds (in particular, those of the Prophet, upon whom be
peace, and their significance)
Consensus al Ijma'
Narrations relating to the Sunnan
Analogical reasoning al Qiyas
Indicating preference in cases of apparent contradiction
Exercising legal acumen and scholarship Ijtihad
Following a specific school of legal thought Taqlid
Disputed Sources (those other than the four "agreed" sources)

The point is we can not formulate an argument and then claim it to be certain or difinitive and then place our faith in it. This is exactly what is occuring with those who follow Reda, they have put there faith in the arguments of uneducated people.

We are comparing the argument of a mujtahid to that of child relatively speaking and somehow concluding the child is correct.

A Mujtahid should possess:

(1) He should be an expert in the Arabic language, literature and philology, so that he may be able to decide properly between the different connotations of the same word.

(2) He should be a high calibre scholar of the Qur'an, and his study of it should be so intensive and extensive that whenever he has to consider a given problem, he should be capable of keeping before his mind's eye the whole sweep of Quranic thought and all relevant verses.

(3) He should have the Traditions of the Holy Prophet [Hadith] memorized, so that whenever he has to concentrate on any problem, he may have all the connected Traditions, even those indirect ones, before him, clearly and vividly, to guide his thinking both appropriately and comprehensively.

(4) Further he should be an expert in both the science of historical criticism (Riwayat) and logical criticism (Dirayat), so that he may be able to view the worth and connotation of various Traditions, under study in their proper perspective.

(5) Above all, he should possess piety and a true Islamic character, and his heart should be imbued with what the Qur'an calls 'fear of God'.

Regarding the hadith in question,

This narration, found in the compilations of Abu Dawud,6 ad-Daraqutni,7 al- Bayhaqi,8 al-Hakim,9 the Tabaqat of Ibn Sa�d,10 and other sources, is questioned by some scholars of hadith (prophetic tradition) because of two narrators in its chain of transmission.

Although a case can be made for accepting the narrations of al-Walid, based on those who do affirm his probity, the state of another narrator in the chain of this hadith, �Abd ar-Rahman b. Khallad, is Majhul al-Hal (unknown).15 Al-Walid also relates this tradition from his grandmother. Imam ad-Daraqutni mentions that her state is also unknown.16 In the opinion of the overwhelming majority of scholars, the existence of a narrator whose state is unknown would make the transmission conveyed by that chain,weak.17

This combination of two potentially weak narrators makes it questionable to use the tradition of Umm Waraqa as the basis for establishing any rulings in the Divine law.

it does make it difficult to use as the primary evidence for a major precept of the religion, which is the case in this discussion.

These points should not be ignored they are key, the situation we have here is one weak hadith being used as a primary (meaning the main piece of evidence) to formulate a ruling. Not only that but it is also being used to contradict other ahadith in the sunnah. You can not interprate one hadith in a way which contradicts other ahadith as rasul allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) did not contradict himself.

Ahmad wrote

Here case is still needed to show that the hadith narration of "Dar" means home and in no possible way it could mean "area". Till that case isestablished your conclusion that she might had acted contrary to the order of prophet is not well understood.

this is the full quote,

First of all, the Prophet, peace and blessings of God upon him, advised Umm Waraqa to stay in her house �Qarri fi Baytiki. This command is of import, as it creates two possible scenarios for the prayer she led. Either she remained in her house to lead the congregation, or she left her house to lead it in a mosque at an outside location. If she left her house to lead the prayer, she would have been acting contrary to the order of the Prophet, peace and blessings of God upon him. There is no transmitted evidence that the prayer took place outside of her home. Hence, we can conclude that her mosque was in her house.

If you notice brother, Imam zaid is not reffering to the word Dar but the prophets words "Qarri fi Baytiki" in which baytiki means "her house", the word Dar is used in refrence to the people she led in prayer. Were they of her house hold only or of the area?

However, then what is the import of the whole narration of this hadith. I mean, there doesn't seem to be any unusual advice for her from the Prophet Mohammad since she already must have been doing so for her regular obligatory prayer in her home. Also the need for "own mu�adhdhin " is not clear if all she needed was to offer a prayer in her home. Now coming to your second possiblity.

The sahaba narated everything of the prophet (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) small or great there does not have to be any importance to the hadith as you suggest, unique or otherwise.

this line of argument is purely speculative so it is not grounds to establish your argument.

"Giving the call to commence (iqama) and call to prayer (adhan) are both prohibitively disliked for women". Islam promotes and ecourages qualities such as modesty, raising the voice is contrary to a person who is modest in there charecter and is striving for ihsan as the sahab were, if you notice brother one of her servants in her hom was male.

my humble question is why were people (not only women but males as well) were allowed to have mosques in their homes despite the fact that all males were stressed to come to mosque for their obligatory prayers.

"Umm-Warqa" to establish mosque in her home might have a ligitimate reason to assume that people outside her home might also had offered prayer in her home.

this is answered by

in fact, the Prophet, peace and blessings of God upon him, ordered the generality of believers to establish mosques in their homes. �Aisha relates, �The Messenger of God ordered that mosques be established in the homes

I think you have also partly answerd your own question in terms of the subject of umm waraqah she was female and female's were not encouraged to go to the masjid as men.

Imam al-Bukhari also mentions a hadith where the Prophet, peace and blessings of God upon him, went to the house of a blind companion, �Itban b. Malik, to establish a mosque there.

If my memory is correct all rasul allah did to establish the masjid in this companion's house was to pray in one of the corners of the house and from that point on that area was considered the masjid.

What you imagine to be a mosque in her home is not correct, in rasul allah's time mosque's were plain and simple mere open space in a courtyard...etc

then the question comes as how this "mu'adhdhin" might had offered the prayer after his ad'ahn for "all ladies show"?

your statment of "all ladies show" is insensative and is nothing more than semantics it is inapropriate to describe sahaba as such. The following answeres your question

Imam ad-Daraqutni�s narration of this hadith mentions that Umm Waraqa was ordered to lead her women in prayer �wa ta�umma Nisa�aha.32 Hence, if the people praying with Umm Waraqa were from the surrounding area, they were all women, as Imam ad-Daraqutni�s version of the hadith makes clear.

Based on this second line of reasoning, we have to accept that they were women, in accords with an interpretive principle, �There is no room for speculation when transmitted evidence exists.�33 Here the text specifically states, �her women.� Ad- Daraqutni�s version would clarify a potentially vague expression in the other versions.

you can not speculate on a matter when clear evidence is available, we are trying to understand what rasul allah tought so we do not have room to ignore any piece of evidence.

(iv) people of her neighbourhood, (v) people of her house (including both male and female). Having a dedicated "mu�adhdhin" rules out all possibilities except the (ii) and (iv). Isn't it? People don't need exclusive dedicated "mu�adhdhin " for their prayers at home untill or unless it is an occassion as mentioned in possiblities (ii) and (iv). Even if it is established that it was the possiblity # (ii) i.e. all women of the area offering prayer at her home, the question as to how the "mu�adhdhin " might had offered his prayer could remain more closer to as having it offered behind Umm-Warqah rather than assuming him to go far distance away to attend the other mosque.

the above partly answers your questions, you are asuming to much based on little evidence, why does the muadhin need to go far far away he could simply wait until the prayer is finished and pray by himself or simply go home as more than likely he was a neighbour.

If the reason that I have presented is correct then this word could logically means "area" and not merely "home".

it is clear from the evidence she only led her female inhabitants in prayer not of her area.

�The Messenger of God ordered that mosques be established in the homes

[Dur plural of Dar], and that they be cleaned and perfumed.�22

All of those narrations use Dar to refer to house.

This would support the interpretation of Dar as �house� as opposed to �area.� This interpretation is also consistent with the literal meaning of the term Dar. Al-Fayruzabadi, Ibn Mandhur, and Raghib al-Isfahani all define Dar as a walled structure encompassing a building and a courtyard.23 An interpretative principle relates that �the origin in expressions is their literal meaning, there is no resorting to derived meanings without a decisive proof.�24 Hence, the term Ahla Dariha would be best translated �the people of her house.�

there is no evidence to sugest Dar to mean area.

In my humble opinion, no one needs a dedicated mu'adhdhin, if its private home affair or for just two or three people are assumed to pray. Anyone out of them could act as a mu'adhdhin. Why need a "dedicated one" is not understood untill or unless it is an affair of group of people in that area?

this line of reasoning clearly contradicts the evidence presented, you are speculating on why a muadhin was apointed further a point of "dedicated muadhin" is not sound do you know any cases of "part time" muadhin it is a non issue.

Missing the point of having a dedicaed "mu'adhdhin".

you have not proven your reasoning for a dedicated mudhin, you have only speculated on the matter with no real evidence presented.

I respect this reasoning, however, the reasons to neglect all other sources for this hadith (Abu Dawud,6 ad-Daraqutni,7 al- Bayhaqi,8 al-Hakim,9 the Tabaqat of Ibn Sa�d,10 and other sources) and relying only on one (that suits the theory) is not a logical way of establishing anything

You can not interprate a hadith to contradicte another hadith if two similar hadith are presented except one is missing a piece of information there is no potential for contradiction one complaments and expands on the other. An Understanding of Usul al Fiqh (rules of deriving rulings) is required here.

Moreover the question of "how might the mu'adhidhin had offered the prayer?" would still hang out to conclude anything but to say that he might had offered behind Umm-Warqah.

you reasoning is clearly contradicted by a hadith which clearly establishes that only women were led in prayer.

I dont think there is a need to reply to the remainder of what you said since it is based on your earlier arguments, which have been answered. Much of your argument is based on speculation and "what if's" we are attempting to see if there is any case to establish a legal ruling in Islam. All the evidence presented is not enough to do this, Scholars do not esblish rulings based on asumtions there must be clear evidence.

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.