QUESTIONS ABOUT ISLAM

rami wrote: Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem You can not force a slave to have sex with you this is rape in islam and punishable under shariah law, it is permisable to simply have relations with them [if they are willing] but you can not force anyone to do anything.

I'm not talking about forced sex or rape. I am talking about extra-marital sex, which is not rape, but a sin nevertheless. So what you said simply confirms what I've just mentioned, that Islam allows sex out side of a marriage bond. Of course sex with a willing woman is not rape. But it's still a sin (khalwat). Why is the Quran prescribing this?

rami wrote: Allah in Quran tells us of the actions of past nations and his final judgment towards them, he also gives commands to the muslim Ummah a small part are direct and literal while others establish legal principles which are to be enforced in accordance to time and situation, which is why it is not permisable to take a rulling given to one person about his particular situation and go and aply it somewhere else where the same conditions do not exist.

In that case, then a lot of verses in the Quran becomes irrelevant today. Am I right?

rami wrote: an example of a legal principle "dire circumstance necessitate ease" which means that something like drinking alcohol to stop you from chocking would be permisable or eating pig so as not to starve to death is fine. These principles can be aplied in diferent situations at any time and to the person observing from the outside he wont know that the person is acting upon such principles if he himself does not know them which is why those less educated in islamic law often confuse the intentions of the law giver as there are many other principles in islam for diferent things all from the quran or sunnah or actions of the companions.

I agree with you. In dire circumstances, we have to take nessassary steps to maintain our life, lest we die of thirst or hunger. So I'm fine if Muslims are allowed to drink alcohol or eat pork, simply for the sake of survival.

But I'm not corcerned with the issue of survival. I'm talking about sex with slaves. You won't die if you're unable to have sex. Maybe you'll get frustrated, but you won't die. So this issue cannot be called "Dire Circumstances".

Perhaps I am posting this in the wrong place. I am new here. My question has to do with just how Christians can get along with Muslims since the Hadith and the Koran preaches that Jesus is not the Son of God, and to say that he is is a blasphemy worthy of being killed for. I know that under the Sharia'h people are killed over this, how can we Christians in this country expect to live amicablely with those who believe in this manner?

artscholbe wrote: My question has to do with just how Christians can get along with Muslims since the Hadith and the Koran preaches that Jesus is not the Son of God, and to say that he is is a blasphemy worthy of being killed for. I know that under the Sharia'h people are killed over this, how can we Christians in this country expect to live amicablely with those who believe in this manner?

A tiny percentage of majority Muslim countries have this death penalty
provison, but it is not for being Christian. It is for Muslims who reject
Islam only.

There are some sharp differences between Christians and Muslims, but
we have much more in common. This forum can help you get an accurate
picture of what those similarities and differences are, and you might
make a friend or two in the process.

After all, we are both people who want to follow God. It's the athiests
who are the real problem.

Trident wrote: The last 2 verses I quoted (23:6 & 70:30) allows a Muslim to have sex with his slaves without the bond of marriage, which is effectively khalwat, or fornication. So how can you confidently say that Islam never allows sex out of the marriage bond? I just showed you 2 verses (23:6 & 70:30) that clearly allow it!

I think your misunderstanding is originating because one is unable to distinguish between marriage with �free women� as compared with that of �captive women�. I can imagine this difficulty among some of the people (both Muslims or non-Muslims alike), since they don�t comprehend how such a society (with slaves) used to exist, especially in the Muslim world. In such a society the rights/obligations  of a �free women� VS �bond women� were distinctively different. Even Quran provides half the punishment on adultery to a married �bond women� as compared to the one done by a married �free women�. [4:25] Similarly, the married �free women� has a share in the inheritance of her diseased husband [4:12] but no such provision for the �bond women� unless she had previously been �freed� by his husband. This is why Quran uses two different terminologies for both of them. For a �free women� the term is �wives� and for �bond women�, they are usually referred as �among those whom your right hand possess�.

Once we realize this understanding as how such a society used to function, it is rather easy to understand the concept of marriage in Islam with a �free women� as opposed to a �bond women�. For this, Quran provides both norms as well as extreme conditions. As bro Rami has already pointed out that sex with �bond women� is only allowed in the extreme conditions, it more important to know where does Quran provides such an exception otherwise its from someone�s own extrapolation from some verses of the Quran not directly related to the issue of marriage (from some dietary laws etc). So to come to this part of evidence from Quran, we see that verse 4:25 clearly provides this provision of exception, but with the condition that the Muslims must �wed� them and give them their �dowry�. �If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours:�

 Even in doing so, these would still remain �among those whom your right hand possess� and shall not be called as wife. The last part of the verse even cautions the Muslims, ��but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.� That is to say that wedding with �those whom your right hand posses� is not to be done as a routine, but only an exception under the conditions specified in the beginning of the verse. I hope the understanding of all such verses including verse 23:6 and 70:30 would be much easier now.

Edited by AhmadJoyia