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Israfil
Senior Member
Joined: 08 September 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 3984
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Posted: 25 March 2006 at 3:02pm |
As'Salaamu Alaikum,
Sister Mishmish I understand where you are coming from and where you are going, but if I may, respectful disagree with what you are composing here. first and foremost although we may say that Afghanistan has the right to make its own laws, techinically it is not a totally sovereign nation especially since the U.S is still there. The Afghnistanian government is still not totally developed, barely has a constitution and still has internal problems within its own judicial system and still struggles with the realities of tribal warfare....
Whew!
Now the U.S although it's legal system is found to be flawed we on the other had are not based on tribalism nor are our courts ran by so-called religious leaders. Understanding this we must understand that in our judicial system our premise is that this individual will get the fairest trial regardless being found guilty or innocent. In Afghnistan you are guilty whether found guilty or innocent. As various clerics have stated if he is released they will coerce the people to try to kill him. Now that is just Barbaric!
Even though ther is somewhat a double standard here you cannot compare two different counties whose laws are based on two entirely different principles. We can say why does Bush do this and that but for the purpose of this thread we must address the issue at hand. In my opinion they are condemning this man for something he did 16 years ago! Not only isn't unfair to pre-judge him well befor preliminaries and his trial but also even if found innocent. His convictions are his own and doesn't deserve to die just because he chooses otherwise. I overheard on the news that a cleric in Afghanistan said "This is the worse sin!" I'm sure he is a Sheykh! Funny I thought shirk was the worse sin which is considered unforgivable oh how we see the sign of our times....LOL
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Mishmish
Senior Member
Joined: 01 November 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1694
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Posted: 25 March 2006 at 4:23pm |
Assalamu Alaikum:
I am not comparing the two countries at all, that is my whole point. They aren't the same country and they are not governed by the same laws.
True, the American military is still there, but our government has used Afghanistan as a shining example of how democracy is working in an Islamic country. Besides, once the U.S. military goes into a country, it doesn't leave, so we might as well get used to it.
Islamically, this man should not be put to death, but much of what happens in Afghanistan has no basis in Islam. Is it barbaric? To us, perhaps. But to most European countries which do not have the death penalty, the U.S.A. is barbaric for continuing to execute people.
Either Afghanistan is a free democratic country that has the right to make it's own laws, or they are controlled by the U.S. and the last two elections there were a complete sham. We, as a nation cannot continue to say that we want countries to be free and democratic, then not allow them to do so.
Edited by Mishmish
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It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member
Joined: 20 March 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1647
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Posted: 27 March 2006 at 1:47pm |
Well as bro DavidC has already shown his concern, and very rightly noted, that till the time this law is not made compatible with Quranic injunctions, similar situation may happen again; not necessarily in Afghanistan though. My suggestion is that since American influence is still dominant in Afghanistan, it is right time for USA to win the hearts of whole Muslim world by taking measures that proclaims correct implementation of Quranic injunctions onto the Shariah laws, at least for that country. This can be done relatively easily, by arranging seminars/conferences among the Islamic Scholars from around the world to discuss the issue to settle it in accordance with Quran. The declaration provided by the CAIR is one step towards that direction, though not sufficient.
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herjihad
Senior Member
Joined: 26 January 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2473
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Posted: 27 March 2006 at 8:32pm |
Bismillah,
I hadn't heard he was going to be "deported". Where will he go? And obviously, there are others like him who would like to leave also, so it's not just this guy who needs help. No wonder people turn to a different faith when the people in their own are oppresive and cruel.
Has anyone thought about why he converted, after all? I think that the true love in Islam needs to be preached in Afghanistan and Jordan and Iraq et cetera. People are lonely and polarized because religion is politically joined and motivated when it needs to be a personal guide and comfort most of all.
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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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ak_m_f
Senior Member
Joined: 15 October 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3272
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Posted: 28 March 2006 at 11:43am |
Afghan Convert in Hiding After Release
KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan man who had faced the death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity quickly vanished Tuesday after he was released from prison, apparently out of fear for his life with Muslim clerics still demanding his death.
Italy's Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini said he would ask his government to grant Abdul Rahman asylum. Fini was among the first to speak out on the man's behalf.
Rahman, 41, was released from the high-security Policharki prison on the outskirts of Kabul late Monday, Afghan Justice Minister Mohammed Sarwar Danish told The Associated Press.
"We released him last night because the prosecutors told us to," he said. "His family was there when he was freed, but I don't know where he was taken."
Deputy Attorney-General Mohammed Eshak Aloko said prosecutors had issued a letter calling for Rahman's release because "he was mentally unfit to stand trial." He also said he did not know where Rahman had gone after being released.
He said Rahman may be sent overseas for medical treatment.
On Monday, hundreds of clerics, students and others chanting "Death to Christians!" marched through the northern Afghan city of Mazar-e-Sharif to protest the court decision Sunday to dismiss the case. Several Muslim clerics threatened to incite Afghans to kill Rahman if he is freed, saying that he is clearly guilty of apostasy and deserves to die.
"Abdul Rahman must be killed. Islam demands it," said senior Cleric Faiez Mohammed, from the nearby northern city of Kunduz. "The Christian foreigners occupying Afghanistan are attacking our religion."
Rahman was arrested last month after police discovered him with a Bible during a custody dispute over his two daughters. He was put on trial last week for converting 16 years ago while he was a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in Pakistan. He faced the death penalty under Afghanistan's Islamic laws.
The case set off an outcry in the United States and other nations that helped oust the hard-line Taliban regime in late 2001 and provide aid and military support for Afghan President Hamid Karzai. President Bush and others had insisted Afghanistan protect personal beliefs.
U.N. spokesman Adrian Edwards said Rahman has asked for asylum outside Afghanistan.
"We expect this will be provided by one of the countries interested in a peaceful solution to this case," he said.
Fini, the Italian foreign minister who is also deputy premier, will seek permission to grant Rahman asylum at a Cabinet meeting Wednesday, a Foreign Ministry statement said.
Fini had earlier expressed Italy's "indignation" over the case. Pope Benedict XVI also appealed to Karzai to protect Rahman.
Italy has close ties with Afghanistan, whose former king, Mohammed Zaher Shah, was allowed to live with his family in exile in Rome for 30 years. The former royals returned to Kabul after the fall of the Taliban regime a few years ago.
Asked whether the U.S. government was doing anything to secure Rahman's safety after his release, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said in Washington that where he goes after being freed is "up to Mr. Rahman." He urged Afghans not to resort to violence even if they are unhappy with the resolution of the case.
The international outrage over Rahman's case put Karzai in a difficult position because he also risked offending religious sensibilities in Afghanistan, where senior Muslim clerics have been united in calling for Rahman to be executed.
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Angel
Senior Member
Joined: 03 July 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 6641
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Posted: 29 March 2006 at 12:49am |
herjihad wrote:
Bismillah,
I hadn't heard he was going to be "deported". Where will he go? And obviously, there are others like him who would like to leave also, so it's not just this guy who needs help. No wonder people turn to a different faith when the people in their own are oppresive and cruel.
Has anyone thought about why he converted, after all? I think that the true love in Islam needs to be preached in Afghanistan and Jordan and Iraq et cetera. People are lonely and polarized because religion is politically joined and motivated when it needs to be a personal guide and comfort most of all.
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Good points
I think the only way (for your second paragraph) is to separate church and religion.
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~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Mishmish
Senior Member
Joined: 01 November 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1694
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Posted: 29 March 2006 at 8:56am |
Assalamu Alaikum:
There is no separation between religion and politics in Islam. Islam is a complete way of life.
However, Islam is clearly not being followed here. What is needed is a separation of true Islam and ignorant cultural beliefs.
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It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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USA1
Groupie
Joined: 18 February 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 99
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Posted: 29 March 2006 at 10:08am |
Mishmish wrote:
Assalamu Alaikum:
There is no separation between religion and politics in Islam. Islam is a complete way of life.
However, Islam is clearly not being followed here. What is needed is a separation of true Islam and ignorant cultural beliefs.
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Are not the Islamic run governements responcible for the feelings of Muslims against the west? They could sanction western countries that they deem to be a threat to their culture. That would eliminate the western culture from encroaching on each country.
It would stop the oil flow to us greedy Americans and remove the infidels from their lands.
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They just don't get it!
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