QUESTIONS ABOUT ISLAM |
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Trident
Newbie Joined: 22 March 2006 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 29 |
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I agree that Muhammad was very influential. Tell me, is not Ibnu Ishaq's Sira Rasul the best place to learn about this man? After all, it's his biography. It's full of anecdotes about wars conducted by Muhammad. Nothing about bringing people nearer to Allah! You want to lead a life folllowing in his footsteps? Mmm... I don't know. I've read the Sira. I agree, Muhammad was influential. But personally I wouldn't want to follow his example or accept him as a prophet, if the Sira is really telling the truth. I don't see Muhammad busy bringing people to Allah in love & devotion, which is what Love of God is all about. I only read about him conducting terrorism upon the non-believers. The story of Kinana, as I stated above, is an example. Are you telling me that we should look over & ignore that?! I can accept killing for self defense, which is natural. But torturing a man to reveal hidden treasures?! It doesn't seems like a prophet's activity to me. Or are you saying that the Hadith & Sira lied? I'll still not state my religious believes, because I believe it won't change your perception of Muhammad.
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Khadija1021
Moderator Group Joined: 30 June 2005 Status: Offline Points: 530 |
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Bismillahir Rahmaanir Raheem
Well, it is obvious from what you have posted thus far that your source for these materials and the interpretation of them is anti-Islamic, and hence, your reading and understanding of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and Islam is truly distorted. Not only do Muslims consider the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to be a righteous man; he has been considered by many great people (non-Muslims at that) throughout history as one of the greatest and most noble men and leaders of all human history. In fact, he has been honored with the title of being the noblest leader of all times by one such non-Muslim of great worldly influence. So, if you think I am going to let one, such as yourself, using flagrant propaganda material to convenience me that he was less that what I know him to be, then you are truly mistaken. Who are you to judge a man such as him? You have shown yourself to be incapable of even using sources that are credible. So, why should I or anyone else for that matter hinge our opinions, knowledge and/or faith upon your feeble attempt to defame our beloved prophet (pbuh)?
Is this your way of trying to get us to empathize with you? As if you are saying �poor me, I was a fool for believing at one time that Islam was good�? I�m sorry but I don�t buy what you are saying here. May Allah forgive me if I am wrong but I don�t buy you story about being such a grand Islam supporter before 9/11. I can honestly say I was not a grand Islam supporter before 9/11 because before 9/11 I knew virtually nothing about Islam. But I also was not a hater of Islam either. I was simply apathetic toward it in the same kind of way I�m apathetic towards the other side of the moon. I don�t know the other side of the moon; I�ve never seen it; I know its there but that�s about it. Personally, I think I was in the same pot that a huge majority of Americans were in at that time.
Do you really think �Muslims� are the only religious members who �hijack� their faith? What about Christian history?�the Crusades�the Grand Inquisition�the Salem Witch Hunts�the KKK�abortion clinic bombers�and that is just for starters. No, you didn�t decide to read the Islamic scriptures. What you decided was like what so many others did after 9/11. There were two camps�okay, three. One camp (let�s call it One camp (let�s call it camp B) decided to do some research but, in doing so, they sought out sources to verify their anger and hate towards �Muslims� based upon their preconceived opinion that was likely inflamed by what President Bush said about them; i.e., they where terrorists, and hence, Islam was a violent faith which not only condones violence but commands it. They forgot that at that time, President Bush was willing to say just about anything to get the heat off himself for sitting illegally in the presidential seat. In fact, interestingly enough, since 9/11, there has been no more talk about his less than legitimate first term in office. So, the folks in The last camp (let�s call it
Once again, if you go to anti-Islamic sources for your information, you are going to get a view of Islam that is exactly like yours. I want to ask you one question. Safiya was 17 (by the way, she as been married twice before the Prophet (pbuh)) when the Prophet (pbuh) kept her from being the salve of another Muslim man so that he could show her mercy and honor her position as a direct descendant of the Prophet Moses (pbuh) by manumitting her and marrying her. She was not forced to be his wife. She knew him from her childhood. Her father was the leader of the Jewish tribe that lived in
Trident, if you want me to believe it is anything other than for you to try and get Muslims to buy your flagrant misrepresentation of Islam, or to frighten away non-Muslims who might be considering Islam as their chosen faith so that they don�t, then, no, I don�t understand. However, it is so apparent to me why you are here that I seriously doubt it could be anymore apparent short of you coming straight and confessing. However, that would spoil your little farce wouldn�t it? My question to YOU is �Do you understand what the purpose of my doing this is?� You see, I�m one of those people who wanted to know the truth about Islam. I just happened to have a very bad experience with a local Muslim which made me curious about what Islam had to say about his behavior. And when I sought the opening (Al-Fatihah), it was truly an opening for me. Allah with His Most Merciful Mercy opened the door to His Most Noble and Blessed kingdom for me to enter in. When I stepped through that door, I knew I had come home at last. Now, it is my purpose to serve Allah and to fight (with the pen of course) people like you. People who calm to be follows of �peace� and �love� but who can only do so by spreading lies and corruption of the TURTH. I will gladly live every day for the rest of my life, like Sayfia, living the life of Islam. Just as she was neither forced nor enslaved; I too was neither forced nor enslaved. The submitting was done of freewill from the beginning and it will be, Inshallah, until I, too, am laid into the ground to wait the call of my God�the God�the only God�Allah. Allahu Akbar! Subhan Allah! Alhamdulillah!\
I don�t know what your faith is and you are correct when you say it is irrelevant because it truly is irrelevant even if not for the reason you give. The reason is, as it states in the follow ayat from the Holy Qur�an (Bismillah Rahmaanir Raheem). 2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. 5:69 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christains,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. Please note that it states ANY person (regardless of his/her so called religion). Now, if I�m not mistaken�correct me if I�m wrong�Islam is the only faith that makes this claim. You won�t find this in the Torah or the Gospel. So, how is it according to Islam you are a kufr? Do you believe in the God and the Last Day? Do you work righteousness? If you in fact do, then how can you say that Islam refers to you as a kufr? If you do and you say that Islam is calling you a kufr, then you are, flat out, a liar because Islam does not call ANY person who believes in the God and the Last Day and who works righteousness nothing less than he/she who will be rewarded by their Lord and on them shall be no fear nor will they grieve. Subhan Allah! Ameen! Ashukru-lillahi Rabbil-Alameen Wala- Hawla Wala Quwata Illa Billah PAZ Sister Khadija Edited by Khadija1021 |
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Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)
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Trident
Newbie Joined: 22 March 2006 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 29 |
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Miss Khadija, You accuse me of obtaining these information from anti-Islam sources. But I'm always repeating myself that all the information I get are from authentic Islamic sources, namely the Quran, Hadiths & Sira. I live in Malaysia & read the Sira in the Malay language. Book controls are quite tough in Malaysia & I believe they put the correct translation on the book shelf. So it's from the Sira that I found information about Kinana's torture & sunsequent murder at the hands of Muhammad. Now please tell me that what I read is not true, and Muhammad didn't really torture & kill Kinana. The Quran promises hell fire for the unbelievers. Are you telling me that I can get salvation even without embracing Islam, simply by accepting God & being righteous? You mean I don't have to accept Allah to be able to achieve salvation? Then please explain to me this verse: 003.085 Regards,
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Khadija1021
Moderator Group Joined: 30 June 2005 Status: Offline Points: 530 |
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Trident, if you don't know that Allah literally means "the God" referring to the fact that there is only one God and not many gods, and The God of Muhammad (pbuh) is the same God as the God of Abraham (pbuh), Moses (pbuh), Jesus (pbuh) and all other Prophets (pbut), then you truly do not know Islam. The answer to your question is simple and it is this, Islam literally means, "submission/surrender to the Will of God", so any person who submits/surrenders his/her will to God, believes in the Day of Judgement and does acts of righteous is considered to be a part of Islam regardless of whether or not they are called Muslims. The only distinction between them would be which prophet he/she follows as their messenger. In fact, if you read the Qur'an carefully, you will see that a person doesn't have to follow any prophet because it is possible that a person lives in some remote region of existence (i.e,m the planet) and they have never heard of any prophet but they have been guided by God to beleive in Him and they do deeds of righteousness. It is only if you worship Allah through one of the Books of His faith that you would be following a prophet as your personal messenger. If God willing, that will help you understand that ayat. Regardless of whether you think so or not, the Qur'an does not contradict itself. So, a little hint is that if you come upon something YOU think is contradictive, then you need to pray to GOD and ask for enlightenment and then try to have an open mind and search for the truth. I know that people fight over details when they should not but I personally believe that it is not good to fuss and fight over details that only God will be able to settle on the DAY. It is God and only God that knows all and I, as his servant, simply submit my will to Him and pray that He is merciful to all of His servants. To put it plainly, there is only one religion and that is GOD's religion and nothing any human has to say about it will make it other than what it is. We as humans either choose to submit to it or we don't. I think the best that we humans can do is to beg for forgiveness for any shortcomings we might have and to beg for forgiveness if we are somehow being lead astray. I'm not here to judge whether a Christian or a Jew has been led to beleive some things are not true because some evil people tried to corrupt their holy books. It has been revealed to me by God that it is so, but I leave it to God judge human kind. PAZ Sister Khadija
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Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)
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Andalus
Moderator Group Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1187 |
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Greetings Trident. There are many sources to learn about the Prophet. Your final statement is an ambiguous statement that is more of a swip based on a presumption then anything constructive. The "sources" contain many events, conflict is among them. So from your presumption may I deduce that you are a benign pacifist? And may I deduce that you feel all the nations of the world are evil?
Yes, you keep repeating you have read the sira, and you also seem to only focus with a singular wit on a single topic interpretaing it with a presumption you had before actually studying his life. Not very intellectually honest. You disagree that he was a prophet. So could you give me your criteria that makes one a prophet? Not only do I see Prophet Muhammad (saw) bringing the last revelation to man, but I also see him as a mercy from Gd and a blessing to mankind. You stated, "Gd is about love and devotion". Your use of this phrase is like a slogan, which tells us little if nothing about your point of contention. Please elaborate.
Define terrorism and then please give an example? The story you are relating is no doubt the cheap polemic that is commonly found on the lower class polemical sites. You see, what the bellicose, intellectually bereft detractors such as Ali Sina and the scourge of missionaries do not include with the example, is that Ibn Ishaq is considered to be unreliable in terms of accepting his accounts as factual. The likes of giants such as Imam Malik regarded his narrations as "unreliable" which is common knowledge amongst Muslims, which tells me that this cheap polemic you are invoking is custome made for new converts or those considering Islam as a "choice". So much for your "love and devotion", or is it "love and devotion and deciet and intellectual bankruptcy"? Ibn Ishaq, like "historians" of his day, would record narratives without any verification of the source and would record what he heard and sometimes not the source. Afterall, narrative oral stories about events was in itself interesting and for the collector part of history. So not everything was recorded because it was the verified truth. The story you are invoking has not source, and in Islam, it is thrown out. Ibn Ishaq was also known to use stories he borrowed from the Jews of his day. The point is, no narrator is mentioned, and in Islam, we throw out any narrative where no narrator is mentioned.
With all due respect, you are not stating your religous beliefs due to cowardice. Please do not take it the wrong way, but I can see no other reason for your unwillingness to cast such a mystery. Peace
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A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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One thing that bro Trident has specifically alluded to is his source of info as "ibn Ishaq" without realising that though he was a Muslim historian, yet ibn Ishaq didn't apply the stringent methodology of "Ilum ul Hadith" to verify every report that he is using it for narrating his history. Hence, fall short of giving accurate accounts of Islamic doctrine especially when it comes to deducing Isalmic laws from it. Hopefully this shall give a better perspective in which his history must be viewed especially once a contrasting evidence is found elsewhere.
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mariyah
Senior Member Joined: 29 March 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1283 |
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Ah, time for one of my favorite Surahs! 24:19 Verily, as for those who like [to hear] foul slander spread against [any of] those who have attained to faith
<>Asad(24,20)
truetrue |
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"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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Andalus
Moderator Group Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1187 |
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Assalam Aleikum. Absolutely Br. These polemicists bring up these stories but they fail to include all of the facts about the sources. It is my belief that these ruses are in fact created for the sole purpose of obfuscating the issue for those non-Muslims who are taking a serious look at the deen, and for new converts who's iman is new. Many missionaries act as "retention" personel for sheep looking to find the one true path to Allah subhana wa t'ala, and their method of controlling loose sheep is misinformation and propaganda. I do know many fine Christians and in no way do I codemn all Christians and others for this assault. Edited by Andalus |
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A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
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