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DavidC
Senior Member Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474 |
Posted: 16 April 2006 at 4:17pm |
Very few Christian denominations will identify Mormons as Christians, just as very few Muslims will call NOI, Habibism or the Amidayyah (sp?) Islamic.
Athanasius beliefs are well within the mainstream of general Christian doctrine. He did not word his post well, and should not have made his comment sound personal, but he has a point. |
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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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Mishmish
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1694 |
Posted: 16 April 2006 at 4:59pm |
We are not saying that anyone on this forum cannot believe whatever they want to believe. I have stated and will state again that the Moderators here do not care what your beliefs are as long as you act in a proper manner and follow the Guidelines. But any type of personal attack will not be tolerated. Angela was specifically singled out, asked what she believed, then summarily attacked on all sides by four different users at once. Despite her asking them repeatedly to leave her alone and not denigrate her beliefs, they continued to do so. Then some of them started spamming her personal e-mail with mean messages. This will not be tolerated on this forum.
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It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Athanasius
Guest Group Joined: 13 April 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 65 |
Posted: 17 April 2006 at 7:37am |
For the poster that asked about what Anglicanism is: this is the tradition of Christianity that grew out of the separation of the Church of England from the Church of Rome during the reign of King Henry the Eighth. Anglicans are a major worldwide denomination. The largest portion of Anglicans are, in fact, found in Nigeria, Rwanda, and other countries which were once English colonies. In the United States, the Anglican Church is called the Episcopal Church. However, that Church has split into several groups because of the Episcopal Church's obvious liberalness and apostasy (regarding homosexual ordination and marriage, etc.). The Anglican Mission in America was begun by African and Oriental Anglican bishops who ordained "missionaries" to govern conservative Anglicans in the United States. Most Anglican churches are in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury. However, the Ab. of Canterbury does not have the same power as the pope, for instance. Loyalty to Canterbury is optional. Also, there are about 70 million Anglicans worldwide, the majority in Africa, so the Anglican Church is no longer simply an Englishman's church, but is now far more diverse. Archbisop Akinola of Nigeria is the chief leader of the conservative wing of the Anglican Communion, and most conservative Anglicans look to him for leadership. Here is a link to the Church of Nigeria: http://www.anglican-nig.org/home.htm It should be noted that the Anglican Church has preserved Apostolic Succession - in other words, their bishops trace their apostolic authority to the Apostles through ordination. I am a part of the conservative branch of Anglicanism. I hope this clears up any questions you may have. Ath Edited by Athanasius |
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Freedom is a gift from God - to deny men freedom is to worship evil.
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Athanasius
Guest Group Joined: 13 April 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 65 |
Posted: 17 April 2006 at 7:53am |
I do not believe I made my comments personal, but if I did, I'm sorry. Let me put it this way: Christianity is identified by a core-belief system which is shared by all calling themselves Christians. This core belief-system transcends denominational barriers. Those who do not share in these core-beliefs are not considered to be Christian by those within the fellowship of Christian churches. These core beliefs include the following: 1. God is a Triune Being: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Within the One Godhead there exists the Persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. As the Athanasian creed states, we do not confuse the Persons or confound the substance (all Persons of the same substance of Deity). 2. Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Godhead. He became flesh in the womb of the Virgin Mary, and was made man. 3. Christ is the full, perfect and sufficient sacrifice by His death on the cross, for the sins of the whole world. His shed blood was the only oblation for sin acceptable to God. Forgiveness of sins comes solely by faith in His sacrificial death. 4. Christ was crucified under Pontius Pilot, and buried. On the third day He arose from the dead in His glorified physical body. He ascended to His Father in Heaven. 5. The Holy Spirit, the Paraclete and Comforter, was sent by the Father, through the Son, to indwell believers and guide the Church. 6. Christ will come again to judge both the quick (living) and the dead. His kingdom will have no end. 7. We believe that the Holy Scriptures contained in the 66 books of the Bible are inspired by God and free from doctrinal error. (Roman Catholics and Orthodox include some additoinal books). 8. We believe that Christ instituted at least two ordinances or sacraments: The Lord's Supper, or Holy Communion, and Baptism with water in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 9. We believe that salvation is by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ. 10. We believe that we are commanded by Christ to go into all the world and preach His Gospel. Now, there may be minor variations among Christians on such things as the means of baptism, the meaning of the sacraments, etc. However, we are united in Christ as far as the core beliefs are concerned. As I attempted to illustrate above, it would be ludicrous for me to outline these Christian beliefs and then tell you I'm a Muslim - right? There are certain identifying doctrines that Muslims hold dear and by which they identify those within their brotherhood. It is the same for Christians. So, I will state again, those who may identify themselves as Christians, but who reject one or more of the core-doctrines of Christianity which I have posted above, are not Christians, even though they may idenitify their Church by using Jesus' Name or baptize in His Name. If they deny the faith of Jesus, then they cannot be considered Christians anymore than Muslims would consider Bahais Muslims. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding. It is not a personal attack, but a clarification for those on IslamiCity. Edited by Athanasius |
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Freedom is a gift from God - to deny men freedom is to worship evil.
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Angela
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555 |
Posted: 17 April 2006 at 8:38am |
Christianity is identified by a core-belief system which is shared by all calling themselves Christians. This core belief-system transcends denominational barriers. Those who do not share in these core-beliefs are not considered to be Christian by those within the fellowship of Christian churches. These core beliefs include the following: 1. God is a Triune Being: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Within the One Godhead there exists the Persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. As the Athanasian creed states, we do not confuse the Persons or confound the substance (all Persons of the same substance of Deity). This is the one thing that separates Mormons in theology. That we reject the 3=1 and yet, we still have this Godhead. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. One in purpose, the Divine Plan of Salvation. 2. Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Godhead. He became flesh in the womb of the Virgin Mary, and was made man. 3. Christ is the full, perfect and sufficient sacrifice by His death on the cross, for the sins of the whole world. His shed blood was the only oblation for sin acceptable to God. Forgiveness of sins comes solely by faith in His sacrificial death. 4. Christ was crucified under Pontius Pilot, and buried. On the third day He arose from the dead in His glorified physical body. He ascended to His Father in Heaven. 5. The Holy Spirit, the Paraclete and Comforter, was sent by the Father, through the Son, to indwell believers and guide the Church. 6. Christ will come again to judge both the quick (living) and the dead. His kingdom will have no end. 7. We believe that the Holy Scriptures contained in the 66 books of the Bible are inspired by God and free from doctrinal error. (Roman Catholics and Orthodox include some additoinal books). I have a Orthodox bible complete with the apocrypha. So, if the Catholic traditions can have additional books not recognized as canon by the Protestants and still be Christian. Why can't we? We still recognize the original 66 books. This years focus is on the Old Testament. 8. We believe that Christ instituted at least two ordinances or sacraments: The Lord's Supper, or Holy Communion, and Baptism with water in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 9. We believe that salvation is by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ. 10. We believe that we are commanded by Christ to go into all the world and preach His Gospel. Now, there may be minor variations among Christians on such things as the means of baptism, the meaning of the sacraments, etc. However, we are united in Christ as far as the core beliefs are concerned. So, I will state again, those who may identify themselves as Christians, but who reject one or more of the core-doctrines of Christianity which I have posted above, are not Christians, even though they may idenitify their Church by using Jesus' Name or baptize in His Name. If they deny the faith of Jesus, then they cannot be considered Christians anymore than Muslims would consider Bahais Muslims. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding. It is not a personal attack, but a clarification for those on IslamiCity. The one thing that separates Mormons from other Christians is belief in a restored Gospel and the apostacy of the main Church. Heretics possibly, unorthodox definitely, but we are still Christians. We have all Ten of the aspects. We just define the Godhead differently and have an extra scripture. Our beliefs include our Church being the only true Church of Christ. However, when I was growing up, I saw first hand the differences in Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism. I was raised a mainstream Christian. Now if my family can understand, accept and not judge, why do you feel the need to do so??? Christ taught love, faith and Charity. My favorite scripture comes from 1 Corinthians Chapter 13. But, I for one suggest you go back and read John 8. Maybe with both of these scriptures, you can understand how Unchristlike it was for you, Meng, Katherine and (whoever Betsy Bower is) to start harassing me for my beliefs. My grandmother, a good faithfuly protestant was appaulled by the behavior and thinks you all need to go back to Sunday School with the kindergartners....relearn what you were taught there. Main Entry: 1Chris�tian |
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Athanasius
Guest Group Joined: 13 April 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 65 |
Posted: 17 April 2006 at 9:05am |
Angela, you are the one engaging in debate here, I am only outlining the Christian viewpoint. If you want to debate Mormonism with me, I'll be glad to meet you over on Beliefnet. Your statement that the ONE thing that separates Mormons from OTHER Christians is misleading. 1. Mormons are not other Christians, they are a non-Christian sect. 2. The chief thing which separates Christians from Mormons is: The doctrine of God The doctrine of man Mormons are polytheists - and in this way are similar to Hinduism. Mormons believe that God was once a human being, a man. That through obedience to the Mormon gospel, he evolved to Godhood. All Mormons can also have as their goal evolving into gods and goddesses. A well known saying by Mormons is: "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.'' Although today's LDS tend to play down this couplet, it is very much a true description of the anthropomorphic gods and goddesses of Mormonism. Whereas the Christian God always was God, according to Christian doctrine, as well as Judaism and Islam, Mormons worship a deity who was once a man. However, since the moderators have already reprimanded us about engaging in debate here about Mormonism, I believe that you should refrain from any further expositions of Mormon doctrine, unless of course you are seeking converts. |
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Freedom is a gift from God - to deny men freedom is to worship evil.
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Angela
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555 |
Posted: 17 April 2006 at 9:42am |
No, I just want you to stop degrading my religion by calling us Non Christian. You aren't the Pope, the Bishop of Cantabury or any other kind of official that has the right to hand out membership badges. I could have come on here claiming to be from the Hope Evangelical Parish of Todd, Pennsyvlania and you would have said nothing. But because I'm Mormon, you feel the need to pull out doctrine which has no business on this website and make a stink about Mormons not being Christian. When in Fact we are listed at a Chrisitan Denomination in the catagory of Restorationism. We aren't even listed as a Christian Heresy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations And according to Adherents.com We are also a Chrisitan sect. Accounting for 1.5-2% of Christians depending on the chart you look at here. http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#religions You have no right to come onto this site and break down my faith. I am a Christian and a Woman of the Book. You go ahead and keep bringing up doctrines I've never taught here. If you ask most of the people here. I came to learn. Only in one thread did I discuss my faith at length and that was on request. Otherwise, I try to focus on what THEY believe. If I wanted to share what I believe, I'd be on beliefnet. But with people like you there. I am hardly going to suffer the abuse.
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