Gabriel: "Read" or "Recite?"

bmzsp wrote: Translating word for word has not gotten you any where so far. You cannot understand Semitic and Oriental languages well in and with the help of  English. Please remember that.

So, this is where the problem lies: with those who don't understand that the Qur'an in anything but Arabic is not the Qur'an at all but merely an interpretation of the meaning (as opposed to a translation - which they are not).  And that trying to understand the Qur'an must come with a knowledge of Arabic.

Good points, bmzsp.

Peace, ummziba.

bmzsp wrote: George, To cut a long story short, let me make it very simple for you. Translating word for word has not gotten you any where so far. Let me put this way first: 1.Gabriel appears to Muhammad like he appeared to so many before. 2. He must have greeted and introduced himself and then told him the purpose of his coming. 3. He did not bring along any book with him so the question of asking Muhammad to read from the book does not arise. 4. Muhammad, likewise, did not have a notebook, a feather nib and ink with him also, so the question of writing does not arise. 5. What could the word Iqra mean then? 6. Muhammad could not recite anything of his own or on his own. The simple meaning is that Gabriel said, "Repeat after me what I say or just say the words that I recite." An example of this can be found in the swearing in ceremony of a President or a Prime Minister, when the Supreme Court Judge recites the oath or reads out to the President or the PM and he/she repeats or recites or reads or follows or says what he/she is told.   I can safely say that the President or the PM read the oath or recited the oath or repeated the oath after the Supreme Court Judge or Justice. Hope you have understood this time. You cannot understand Semitic and Oriental languages well in and with the help of  English or Greek. Please remember that.

The story does not say that Gabriel introduced himself to Muhammad.  As the story goes Muhammad did not know who was speaking to him.  This is clearly spelled out in the Hadith.

"Muhammad (s) was terrified by the whole experience of the revelation and fled the cave of Mt. Hira [Qur'an 81:19-29]. When he reached his home, tired and frightened, he asked his wife: �cover me, cover me,� in a blanket. After his awe had somewhat abated, his wife Khadijah asked him about the reason of his great anxiety and fear. She then assured him by saying: "Allah (The One God) will not let you down because you are kind to relatives, you speak only the truth, you help the poor, the orphan and the needy, and you are an honest man. Khadijah then consulted with her cousin Waraqa who was an old, saintly man possessing knowledge of previous revelations and scriptures. Waraqa confirmed to her that the visitor was none other than the Angel Gabriel who had come to Moses. He then added that Muhammad is the expected Prophet. Khadijah accepted the revelation as truth and was the first person to accept Islam. She supported her hu sband in every hardship, most notably during the three-year �boycott� of the Prophet�s clan by the pagan Quraish. She died at the age of sixty-five in the month of Ramadan soon after the lifting of the boycott in 620 CE."

Source:  http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/muhammad.html

Notice that it was Waraqa who said that it was Gabriel and also notice that it was Waraqa who said that Muhammad was a prophet like Moses.

Since about 75-80% of Muslims cannot read or understand the Arabic language then they are in the same boat that I am in.  Surely, you aren't suggesting that the Qur'an cannot properly be translated into other languages with the meaning of the Arabic words in tack, are you?

One does not need to be able to read in order to repeat words after someone else.

If Muhammad was asked to read and he said he couldn't read, that is fine if the angel asked him to read some text, but according to you, he didn't have any text.  Using your logic then Muhammad should have said, "I do not know how to recite" and not "I do not know how to read."  In other words, Muhammad's response does not match what he was asked to do.

Beyond all of this I would think that Muhammad would have know how to read and write because of the business he was in.  His wife had a business and Muhammad was a part of it.  He would have had to know some basics in reading and writing.

The article I cited above says:

"Under the guardianship of Abu Talib, Muhammad (s) began to earn a living as a businessman and a trader. At the age of twelve, he accompanied Abu Talib with a merchant caravan as far as Bostra in Syria. Muhammad was popularly known as �al-Ameen� for his unimpeachable character by the Makkans and visitors alike. The title Al-Ameen means the Honest, the Reliable and the Trustworthy, and it signified the highest standard of moral and public life.

Upon hearing of Muhammad�s impressive credentials, Khadijah, a rich merchant widow, asked Muhammad (s) to take some merchandise for trade to Syria."

Also I would think that Khadijah would have had to know how to read and write and would have taught her husband the basics. 

I don't understand this story.  It doesn't make sense to me. 

George wrote: I don't understand this story.  It doesn't make sense to me.

George,

It doesn't make sense to you because you refuse to believe that Muhammad was an illiterate, a fact confirmed many times in the Qur'an (see the link to the "unlettered Prophet" story I gave).  You are just tripping yourself up on your own self doubt.  Not to worry, some Muslims get the story.  Perhaps, insha'allah, some day you might too.

Think outside the box...

Meantime, we can all do well to study our revelations from Allah - the studying is what leads to knowledge which leads to understanding which leads to a great gift from Allah: inner peace.  May Allah grant us all some of that today.

Peace, ummziba.

George,

From you: "The story does not say that Gabriel introduced himself to Muhammad."

Is this what how you understood my post?  Let me go another way round:

If there is an illiterate English-speaking Western man, who can neither read nor write English but he speaks English. You tell him to sing a song along with you by following you. Can that illiterate man do that?

Certainly he can!

You sing first: Baa baa black sheep

and he sings after listening to you: Baa baa black sheep

Then you sing: Have you any wool?

and he sings: Have you any wool?

till you both finish the song or a message. The same illiterate gentleman, who could neither read nor write sang the song after you. Is it that difficult to understand?

That is what Muhammad did. Muhammad followed what Gbariel said or recited.

Regarding your quotes from the Hadith, you know well and I have told you many times that if a Hadith is weak and falls flat under Qur'aan, a Muslim has to trust and follow Qur'aan which is the WORD of God.

Please read Surah 53 Najm and you will know what God Almighty is telling us about Muhammad's First encounter and another encounter.I do not need stories when my Lord God Almighty is already telling us the strong character of our dear Prophet.  

That is a glorious tribute to Muhammad by God Almighty direct. that Surah aslo demolishes the liars like Ali Sina, Ibn Warraq, Salman Rushdi and their Satanic company who don't even have real names for themselves, except salman Rushdi.  

Question time now:

A very important question and answer it very carefully, please: Did Jesus know how to write?