Under Invasion now

Patty,

�� We [Roman Catholics] don't pray TO Mary and/or the saints ��

I never understood it that way, Patty, and the issue might devolve to the differences, however subtle, between a �petition� and a �prayer.� In my experience (which, when it comes to Roman Catholicism is not insignificant, I would remind everyone), it is to Mary, the Mother of God (theotokos), that such invocations as the �Salve Regina� are clearly addressed.  I understand that the petition also involves a request for �intercession,� so no argument (for lack of a better word) there. 

Annie,

I am restricted to � hour at the moment on a public library computer and hence do not have time (yet) to adequately respond to your post in my �They say Mary hath begotten God?� thread, but please know that if I raise these at times admittedly problematic issues, it is not to encourage division and rancor.  Facts are, and I hope to delve into the matter more as that thread continues, there are significant differences between Roman Catholic and Protestant approaches to this issue (of Mary�s role as the Mother of God).  Often times, as I see it, the Protestant view, which tends toward neo-Nestorianism, more closely approximates that of Islam and hence that of Muslims, interestingly enough.  My memory fails, but I recall a Roman Catholic writer as having once said (granted, arguably) of Protestantism (in comparison to Islam) that �the Protestants have only a few superstitions the more and a prophet the less.�  Recall, as well, what were called the �Judaizing� tendencies of early Lutheranism and of Martin Luther himself (before he became, well, �disillusioned� with Jews for not accepting his �reformed� faith).  But these are, in a way, other topics. 

Stay tuned (and thanks to both of you for participating).

Best regards,

Serv

Here is why Jesus referred to His Mother, Mary, as "woman":

The Gospel of St. John relates two significant accounts which relate to Mary � the wedding feast of Cana and the Crucifixion. Of the first account we read:

�There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee, and the Mother of Jesus was there. And Jesus also was invited, and His disciples, to the marriage. And the wine failing, the Mother of Jesus said to Him, �They have no wine.� And Jesus said to her, �Woman, what is it to Me and to thee? My hour is not yet come.� His Mother said to the waiters, �Whatsoever He shall say to you, do ye�� (John 2:1-5).

Jesus Christ then proceeded to work His first public miracle at His Mother�s request. Everything related in the Gospels is inspired by God, and there is a reason for it. Does not this narrative of the wedding feast manifest the intercessory power of Mary with Jesus Christ, her Divine Son?

In the second account, also take from the Gospel of St. John, we read:

�There stood by the Cross of Jesus His Mother... When Jesus therefore had seen His Mother and the disciple standing whom He loved, He saith to His Mother: �Woman, behold thy son...�� (John 19:25-27).

Just as Eve cooperated with Adam in the Fall of mankind, the Blessed Virgin Mary cooperated with Jesus Christ in our redemption. She �stood by the Cross of Jesus.� What anguish, what sorrow did the Mother of Jesus experience at the foot of the Cross as she witnessed the sufferings and death of her Divine Son!

In both accounts, Jesus addressed Mary by the term woman. In Hebrew the word used by Jesus was a term which would be addressed to a queen or a woman of high rank. It was a term of great respect.

But why did Jesus Christ address His Mother by the term woman at these two significant moments in His life � at His first public miracle, and at His Crucifixion on the Cross?

Our Divine Lord wanted to clearly indicate that His Mother was the Woman spoken of in the Book of Genesis:

�I will put enmities between thee (Satan) and the Woman, between thy seed and her seed, and she shall crush thy head.�

�I can agree with petition, Serv, but not prayer.�

Understood, Patty.  And I thought so. 

�I know the Salve Regina well, also the Hail Holy Queen....and many others of course.  Since you once were in a Jesuit school, I realize you know much about the Church.  There is a big difference between Catholic and Protestant faiths.�

Understood.  Except for the fact that I am a rebel, and as we have discussed before, I generally prefer (or agree) with the Roman Catholics.  As I see it, sola scriptura Protestantism, although it did plenty of good, also gave rise to a many-headed hydra, to put it dramatically and controversially.  But that�s another topic.

�As I repeatedly say, I am not here to convert or change anyone's opinion.....rather, I am here to learn more about Islam, what is believed and why.....and to explain what I believe and why.  I am not here to cause anyone to lose their faith, but rather to learn from each other's faith.�

Same here.  In fact, if anyone tried to convert to my religion, I would change religions (or opinions) straightaway and on sheer principle of the matter.  That said, as far as I am concerned, the way you �let your light shine� (when you are not peeved) makes me (sometimes) want to run right back into the arms of Holy Mother Church .  That�s a good thing.

�Good to hear from you again, Buddy!�

Likewise, Patty, and thanks for responding.

Your friend,

Servie

I want to know more about Bmz adventure