IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Religion - Islam > Interfaith Dialogue
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Corrupted Doctrine  What is Islam What is Islam  Donate Donate
  FAQ FAQ  Quran Search Quran Search  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Corrupted Doctrine

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
Message
AnnieTwo View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 26 May 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 281
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnnieTwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2006 at 5:26am
Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:

These points have been discussed here before.

As said before, bring forth ALL of the gospels, not just those handpicked by the Nicean Council, and let people decide which are true and which are not.


The Nicean Council did not choose the gospels.  The books of the NT were formerly accepted after the Nicean Council.  You can read the books that did not make it into the Canon on the Internet.  Most of them compliment the NT on the important issues, that he died and rose again; others make Jesus more divine than the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.  Others were written much too late to be considered canon and were Gnostic.  Gnosticism was in full force in the mid-second century.  One has Jesus bringing a child back to life, one has Jesus speaking as an infant and saying that he is the Son of God and the Savior of the World, one has Jesus making life from clay, one says that his bathwater as an infant was capable of making miracles.

Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:

Obviously this cannot be done, because they contradict. So, somewhere, something was changed. Even theologians who study the ancient texts agree that changes have been made. One word can change the meaning of a whole chapter.


See above.  There have been scribal errors, glosses and the like.  All can be traced and corrected.  A good Bible will note what is not in an early manuscript.  All information is available.  Nothing affects Christian doctrine.  In addition, the Gospel we have today is the same one be had before Muhammad was born.

Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:

And whether or not you believe that the Quran was speaking explicitly of the interpretation of the gospels, that should be enough. No where in the Old Testament or the New Testament does it state Jesus is God, or that there is a trinity. These concepts were added later.


No, Mishmish, they were not "added later."  The concept is there in the Scriptures.  All of Jesus' apostles believed that he was divine; even the Jews believed that Jesus was claiming divinity.  The puzzle was, "How can that be?"

Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:


Jesus never said he was God. If this is not a corruption of what Jesus said, then it is at the least a fabrication.


Haven't we been on this merry-go-round before?

Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:


You ask why wasn't Allah specific when saying the Jews called Uzair a son of God, well, I ask why didn't God say that he is a trinity.


I asked you first. lol  I think that God gave us quite a few clues as to His tri-une nature.  God gives us as much as we can understand depending on the circumstances.  The people in the early days of the Hebrew scriptures were having enough trouble believing that there was only one God, let alone the nature of that one God.

<>
Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:



Why didn't Jesus say that he was God?


He did by the claims that he made.

Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:



In the Quran, God says in no uncertain terms, there is only one God.


The Bible says in no uncertain terms that there is only on God.  Christians believe this.

Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:



Jesus was not my son, literally or figuratively, nor was he a God or the God.


Then how do you explain that God calls King David His son?  If Allah is YHVH, then we have a major contradiction.  YHVH calls all of Israel His "son."

Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:



Nor is there a trinity. This is stated very clearly.


The Qur'an says "don't say three," it does not say "trinity."  Trinity was an added word by translators.  Where in the Qur'an does it define the true believe of Christians and condemn it? 

Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:


<>
I believe the Bible also states very clearly that there is only One God. That you should not make anything or anyone equal to God. But, it does not state clearly anywhere that Jesus is God, or that God is a trinity. Why hasn't God made this clear?


Answered above.

Annie
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

Back to Top
BMZ View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 03 April 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1852
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2006 at 5:29am

Annie,

From you:The Jews do not blame Christians for forging the Scriptures.  Where do you come up with these blatant lies?

Yes! The Jews do. The second sentence from you in above is darn insulting, Annie. Just google and you will find heaps of the truth.

Annie:If Muslims blame and accuse Christians and Jews of changing God's message,  where is your proof?  Because the Qur'an contradicts the Holy Bible?  The same claim can be made of the Muslims.  The Muslims changed God's original message from the Holy Bible.

The proof is in the Bible. We read so many contradictions within the Bible. That is proof in itself. To, Qura'aan the word Bible is unheard of and Qur'aan only mentions Torah and Injeel. God's original message was,"Your Lord God is One". Qur'aan just repeated and reaffirmed that.  

BMZ: I would not say that the Christian Bible and the Jewish Scriptuers have been corrupted. I would say they have been forged.

Annie: And you would be wrong.

BMZ: I am always right. I quote from Scriptures and compare.

I gave The best example of the forgery:

Jewish Scripture: "The young woman shall give birth to a child and shall call him Immanuel". No young woman in the history of Israel gave birth to Immanuel as prophecised and that never happened. Jewsih Scripture is slilent on this.

Christian Scripture: "The virgin will give birth to a child and will call  him Immanuel". The virgin disobeyed God by not calling the child Immanuel.

Annie: Look, BMZ, just because you can't understand the Scriptures does not make them "forged."   I put the explanation on the level of a child (which you asked for) and you still don't understand it.

BMZ: There is really nothing to understand, Annie. It is all written in English. Had you put the explanation on the level of a child, I would have understood it, but you could not and we moved on.

Annie: I could make quite a case of the Muslims "forging" the stories in the Qur'an because some of them are so different.  Your accusations are unfounded and insulting to Christians on this site.  I respect your right to believe in the Qur'an and Muhammad and the Hadiths.  That is your choice.  I would appreciate it if you would please start showing respect for the Christian and Jewish Scriptures.

I believe that I write and discuss inter-faith matters very respectfully. It is just that either you possibly did not understand or read my thoughts well.

Annie: Granted this is an Islamic site but that is no excuse for insulting your guests.  You should hang your head in shame.

Annie, the second part of your above comment was not in good taste. This is a place to discuss and argue. I feel sorry for you that you felt it that way. I write the facts and these matter most.



Edited by bmzsp
Back to Top
DavidC View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar
Male Christian
Joined: 20 September 2001
Location: Florida USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2474
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2006 at 5:39am
The Bible we have today is the same one Muhummad had, and the same one recommended in the Qu'ran. 

All these so called corruptions, edits, glosses whatever do not matter one iota.  The Bible had been codified for centuries before the Qu'ran and Muhummad. 

The Qu'ran and Hadith say read the Taurat, Injeel and Psalms.  They do NOT say read the Taurat, Injeel and Psalms from several hundred years ago.  Yes, they have changed and yes, God and Muhummad knew that when they told Muslims to respect them as holy books.
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.