Women-Led Friday Prayer

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   Dear Sister El-Tantawi

Assalamu Alaykum-

I have watched you on numerous occasions defend Islam, and speak out on behalf of Muslim�s since 9/11 on various news channels. I want to personally thank you for this. You have made us proud.

In regards to the issues with the Ummah, there are numerous problems that afflict Muslims around the world, particularly Muslim Women. Many of these problems have made their way to the USA, from the Muslim World. They need to be addressed, and they need to be discussed.  

I have no objection to the discussion of the role of Women in Islam. I think that this issue should be discussed at all major annual Muslim gatherings in the United States.

Since 9/11, there are those amongst our fellow American citizens, who have used the tragedy to wage their own �holy war� against the very tenets of Islam. You have witnessed this personally as you have engaged some of these people in various live televised arguments and discussion.

Rather than attacking the deviants who committed the 9/11 atrocity, and other atrocities around the globe, they have focused their attention to the actual religion, and have called for eradication of Islam and Muslims, �nuking� Saudi Arabia, occupying the Muslim world, and engaging in the old �divide and conquer� tactic.

Just spend some time on the internet and you will see the insults to Islam, and the Holy Prophet (PBUH). Having been born and raised in America, I can tell you that I have never seen such hatred to any religious group or ethnicity as exists today.

Which makes me wonder, why now? When there are so many issues to discuss, �Why such support for Women led prayers?�  I am an open-minded, American born, Muslim male, and support our Sisters as they struggle against the cultural inequities that have plagued Muslims. Yes, I too am reviled by the fact that our leaders have avoided many issues that need to be addressed in our society.

But, I find it disgusting that the proponents of Women led prayers, are not relying on the Sunnah of our beloved Prophet (PBUH) to make their argument. On what basis do you believe that Women are allowed to lead prayers?  Do you think that the Women of today�s Ummah are any more privileged than Khadija, Aisha, Fatima, the wives of the 4 first Caliphs, the wives of Hassan and Hussein (RAA)?

There have been numerous Women who have done wondrous things for Islam:

 http://www.iecrcna.org/famousmuslimwomen_files/frame.htm#sli de0016.htm

yet, none have engaged the controversial topic of Women led prayers.  Please, leave out the emotional, histrionic, rantings such as you will no longer be sent to the �dungeons of the Mosque�. There are issues that need to be addressed, to set the record straight, to correct the cultural influences that have distorted Islam. But, you seem to argue that if someone disagrees with you than they are wrong, and misogynistic.

You and Professor Wadud and Ahmed Nassef and others have raised the issue of Women led prayers. Now the �Burden of Proof� is upon you. Either put-up or shut-up. 

Please, do not try to encourage people to support your whims and discourage people who follow the whims of other. Even if the Sheikhs and Ulema are wrong in their reasoning, or arguments, if the truth is reached then so be it. Just because you may be more eloquent in your presentation, or have a better command of the English language, it does not make you right. Just because OJ Simpson was acquitted because he had the most dazzling and articulate lawyers, does not mean that he did not kill his ex-wife.

I assume that most Muslims of intellect are not following Islam blindly, and you should not assume that any lay person can interpret Islam on their own. There are and there has always been people who make the study of Islam and Islamic jurisprudence their vocation. I agree that some of them are corrupted, and some of them are puppets of the Middle Eastern regimes, and that we need to �clean house�, but most people who have spent their lives studying Islam who are not puppets do not agree with your viewpoint.

Muslims appreciate all that you have done, and Insha Allah we will continue to see you do wonderful things for Muslims in America. But, if you are going to argue a point, then do so on a rational and well thought out, and well researched basis. Leave the emotional baggage aside.

When Ibn-Taymiah fought against the leading Ulema of his time, he did so eloquently, and using the Quran and Sunnah as his guide. His major problem was that his attacks against the Ulema were harsh and personal, and thus he was not able to get his point across they way he intended.  You should learn from this: use the Quran and Sunnah as your guide, and do not make personal attacks (like the word cojones). You are speaking like the Cowboy Bush did when he said that he was going to �smoke out the terrorists�.

If you do not agree with the Quran and Sunnah�then say it. If you have a viewpoint that differs from others, based on the Quran and Sunnah, then argue it. But, do not argue for raise an issue that you strongly believe in, but has no support. Look at Dr Sidiqi�s article and if you disagree, at least disagree on the the facts that he has provided, and support your argument with facts that support your viewpoint.

Based on what I have read from this discussion on this website and others, your claims that it is permissible for a Woman to lead a mixed congregation is erroneous. It is not based on fact or any premise in the 1400 years of Islam, and thus I tend to agree with those who say it is an innovation. One may argue, and I have seen this argument in the current discussion that the Internet is an innovation, because the Prophet (PBUH) never used the internet. Well, women who were knowledgeable and capable of leading mixed congregation did in fact live during the time of the Prophet (PBUH) and the Sahaba, so a learned Muslim Woman is not an innovation.

 I ask you this in all sincerity, and Allah is my witness.

Insha Allah you will read this message and Insha Allah you will reply.

AA

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ibn muslim Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 21 March 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote ibn muslim Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 March 2005 at 12:55am
	Dear Sister El-Tantawi Assalamu Alaykum- I have watched you on numerous occasions defend Islam, and speak out on behalf of Muslim�s since 9/11 on various news channels. I want to personally thank you for this. You have made us proud. In regards to the issues with the Ummah, there are numerous problems that afflict Muslims around the world, particularly Muslim Women. Many of these problems have made their way to the USA, from the Muslim World. They need to be addressed, and they need to be discussed. I have no objection to the discussion of the role of Women in Islam. I think that this issue should be discussed at all major annual Muslim gatherings in the United States. Since 9/11, there are those amongst our fellow American citizens, who have used the tragedy to wage their own �holy war� against the very tenets of Islam. You have witnessed this personally as you have engaged some of these people in various live televised arguments and discussion. Rather than attacking the deviants who committed the 9/11 atrocity, and other atrocities around the globe, they have focused their attention to the actual religion, and have called for eradication of Islam and Muslims, �nuking� Saudi Arabia, occupying the Muslim world, and engaging in the old �divide and conquer� tactic. Just spend some time on the internet and you will see the insults to Islam, and the Holy Prophet (PBUH). Having been born and raised in America, I can tell you that I have never seen such hatred to any religious group or ethnicity as exists today. Which makes me wonder, why now? When there are so many issues to discuss, �Why such support for Women led prayers?� I am an open-minded, American born, Muslim male, and support our Sisters as they struggle against the cultural inequities that have plagued Muslims. Yes, I too am reviled by the fact that our leaders have avoided many issues that need to be addressed in our society. But, I find it disgusting that the proponents of Women led prayers, are not relying on the Sunnah of our beloved Prophet (PBUH) to make their argument. On what basis do you believe that Women are allowed to lead prayers? Do you think that the Women of today�s Ummah are any more privileged than Khadija, Aisha, Fatima, the wives of the 4 first Caliphs, the wives of Hassan and Hussein (RAA)? There have been numerous Women who have done wondrous things for Islam: http://www.iecrcna.org/famousmuslimwomen_files/frame.htm#sli de0016.htm yet, none have engaged the controversial topic of Women led prayers. Please, leave out the emotional, histrionic, rantings such as you will no longer be sent to the �dungeons of the Mosque�. There are issues that need to be addressed, to set the record straight, to correct the cultural influences that have distorted Islam. But, you seem to argue that if someone disagrees with you than they are wrong, and misogynistic. You and Professor Wadud and Ahmed Nassef and others have raised the issue of Women led prayers. Now the �Burden of Proof� is upon you. Either put-up or shut-up. Please, do not try to encourage people to support your whims and discourage people who follow the whims of other. Even if the Sheikhs and Ulema are wrong in their reasoning, or arguments, if the truth is reached then so be it. Just because you may be more eloquent in your presentation, or have a better command of the English language, it does not make you right. Just because OJ Simpson was acquitted because he had the most dazzling and articulate lawyers, does not mean that he did not kill his ex-wife. I assume that most Muslims of intellect are not following Islam blindly, and you should not assume that any lay person can interpret Islam on their own. There are and there has always been people who make the study of Islam and Islamic jurisprudence their vocation. I agree that some of them are corrupted, and some of them are puppets of the Middle Eastern regimes, and that we need to �clean house�, but most people who have spent their lives studying Islam who are not puppets do not agree with your viewpoint. Muslims appreciate all that you have done, and Insha Allah we will continue to see you do wonderful things for Muslims in America. But, if you are going to argue a point, then do so on a rational and well thought out, and well researched basis. Leave the emotional baggage aside. When Ibn-Taymiah fought against the leading Ulema of his time, he did so eloquently, and using the Quran and Sunnah as his guide. His major problem was that his attacks against the Ulema were harsh and personal, and thus he was not able to get his point across they way he intended. You should learn from this: use the Quran and Sunnah as your guide, and do not make personal attacks (like the word cojones). You are speaking like the Cowboy Bush did when he said that he was going to �smoke out the terrorists�. If you do not agree with the Quran and Sunnah�then say it. If you have a viewpoint that differs from others, based on the Quran and Sunnah, then argue it. But, do not argue for raise an issue that you strongly believe in, but has no support. Look at Dr Sidiqi�s article and if you disagree, at least disagree on the the facts that he has provided, and support your argument with facts that support your viewpoint. Based on what I have read from this discussion on this website and others, your claims that it is permissible for a Woman to lead a mixed congregation is erroneous. It is not based on fact or any premise in the 1400 years of Islam, and thus I tend to agree with those who say it is an innovation. One may argue, and I have seen this argument in the current discussion that the Internet is an innovation, because the Prophet (PBUH) never used the internet. Well, women who were knowledgeable and capable of leading mixed congregation did in fact live during the time of the Prophet (PBUH) and the Sahaba, so a learned Muslim Woman is not an innovation. I ask you this in all sincerity, and Allah is my witness. Insha Allah you will read this message and Insha Allah you will reply. AA

qpeace1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 20 March 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote qpeace1 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 March 2005 at 3:09am
	Excellently stated Ibn Muslim. Excellent!

rami Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Male Joined: 01 March 2000 Status: Offline Points: 2549	Post Options Post Reply Quote rami Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 March 2005 at 4:59am
	Bi ismilahir rahmanir raheem This is an issue of ibadah/worship not a social problem women are facing. So there is no such thing as "if we put the quran and sunnah aside there is nothing wrong" this attitude is deceptive in its nature. I found these pictures of her.
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

herjihad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 26 January 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2473	Post Options Post Reply Quote herjihad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 March 2005 at 7:09am
	Bismillah, Thank you for posting the pictures. I had never seen her before. As one American Muslimah, I feel pleased to hear of Muslimah leaders. The Sheikh's I have consulted have not helped any of my situations over many years. This is because they are mostly concerned with having someone like me being patient with difficult situations and conforming to the status quo rather than resolving them. I apreciate their lessons in patience. But they did not advocate any action or support it with any bravery. They always offered words, but gave no personal action to support those words. I have found this to be true with many of my Muslimah sisters. Maybe a Muslimah leader will be brave and teach others like herself to help women. Either people are for or against her action, but I am just glad to know that she is alive, and I hope that she is sincere and not just looking for publicity for her book as the non-Muslim Rock suggested. I am responding especially because people are saying this is drawing attention from important women's issues. I am a Muslimah and my issues and my sisters' in Islaam's issues over the years have been important. Since the tradtional community indeed failed and are currently failing my family and many families that I know of, this woman gives me hope that by leading in this way, she will lead and encourage others to lead on all of our important Muslimah issues. On point, of course I disagree with praying beside men. It is uncomfortable and invades my privacy. I can understand why some people feel demeanded by being told to "pray in the back" like it's the back of the bus. But if it seems symbolic this way, from my knowledge, it is not intended to be that way. It is just a way to separate men and women and give us more opportunity in prayer to concentrate on the salat. I think of the fact that Allah, SWT is neither male nor female. This is so, so important to our faith, yet we refer to Allah SWT as him. This is a limit of language. Allah, SWT cannot be it, for that would be undignified. But it is this way in the Holy Quran, because Allah SWT made this decision. So Allah, SWT is still neither male nor female, and men and women are still equal before Allah SWT based on our piety, even though one prays in front and the other in back. This separation is logistically based, not at all concerned with status in Deen. As for a woman leading prayer, I would rather a pious woman lead than an impious man. But in a prayer so large based in New York, you couldnt find a pious man??? In the future, sister, I believe that it would be better to follow the brother's advice who said to make speeches and du'a which are encouraged for you to do and won't cause unneccessary division as your current action, ISA.
	Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.

abdnur Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 19 March 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13	Post Options Post Reply Quote abdnur Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 March 2005 at 4:44pm
	Salamu Alaykum As the song goes "One thing leads to another" The speaker at that gathering refered to ALLAH as He, It and She during her speach. Chistians can say muslims now believe in trinity (3 in 1). That was not a Jummuah Salat it was a circuis, a jerry springer show. They said, they observed a traditional "MECCAN" format during the ceremony, men to one side and women to the other, with couples in between (holding hands!!!). I don't see much LIBERATION, from the BACK of the mosque, now shoved to the SIDE. What happened to EQUALITY? Be what you want and where you want?. In a traditional Jummuah (after the prayer), don't you greet, sake hands, huge and kiss your fellow muslims, those you know and those you don't? How many of those attending were on their menstrual cycles. They preregistered to attend, they could not miss it, could they? will they attend every friday? Attendance was by "invitation only", sorry fellows you can not pray jummuah we are "sold out". How many ICONS did they pray to? The virgin Mary? the holy saints? I think their next step is to have new version of the quran with IT/SHE/HE and remove verses that are "anti-US",....,etc.. You see, Satan does not try to get YOU to follow him into hell in ONE ACT/STEP. No! he is too clever and patient. He leeds YOU step by step, little by little, a foot here a foot there until YOU find yourself cought in his web. Are YOU willing to cut his strings and FREE yourself . Turn to YOUR creator, surely HE is oft-forgiving. If we truly want to assert "Muslim Woman's right", then we should of came to the help of our young french muslim girls. Those who were denied their God given right of dignity and respect, the right to be treated like any other human being. Where were WE? to let the weekest among us, our children, to be trampeled on? dehumanized? demoralized? stripped of their identity? having little girls shave their heads to get an education? denying little muslim girls an education? who is the real TALEBAN? The prothet said "Oh Allah, I have convey YOUR message to THEM, Oh Allah, be witness to this". HAVE WE CONVEYED or CONFUSED ISLAM to THEM?? Oh Allah forgive them, for they know not. abdnur

hkrespect Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 20 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 52	Post Options Post Reply Quote hkrespect Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 March 2005 at 5:56pm
	a/a there are enemies of Allah, they wish to extinguish the light of Allah. whenever a person like amina wadud rises, ask your sef this question is amina wadud better in worship to Allah than the Messenger of Allah pbuh?
	hk

ita8111 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 20 March 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote ita8111 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 March 2005 at 6:52pm
	Assalamu alaikum: I'm amazed at the way these deviants are twisting the truth to suit their unholy goals. For example, we are told about the dungeons where women are made to pray while men take over the main part of the Masjid. Go to any of the following Masjids and see for yourself if the women are in dungeons or not. ISCJ Monmouth County NJ, MCMC Piscataway NJ, ICSJ Palmyra NJ, ICMC Lawrenceville NJ, IIS East Windsor NJ, Darul Hijrah Falls Church VA...I could go on and on. The truth is these self serving women want to show they are liberated enough to challenge men. I guess the next step would be for them to introduce music within the prayers itself. This will possibly be followed by the people gyrating to the music as they throw their arms up in the air. After destroying the Christian religion, these same perverts are out to get Islam to change. The MO when dealing with the Christian faith was simple. Start with the little things like getting rid of the hat and veil, then allow short dresses and sleeveless dresses, make Friday worship the equivalent of Sunday worship just so people can enjoy the weekend without having missed their obligations, make prayers in English instead of Latin, eventually ask why women cannot lead the prayers and finally have churches run by female clergy. The whole vicious cycle that has led to the destruction of the family as it was once known. Perverts need a medium or a courier and who better than Amina Wadud and her band of merry women. ALLAH's Curses be on those who cause Fitnah amongst HIS people. Edited by ita8111

Sis Ummah Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 22 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 28	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sis Ummah Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 March 2005 at 10:43am
	There are so many issues being evoked here, besides it being a womens led Friday prayer. The other issues being insecurity, powerlessness, and racism. I think the main taboo here is that this is an educated African-American Muslim Woman. The things being hated most are the African-Woman-American. For many self-hating colonized immigrants, they internally can not accept the fact that there are African-American, people of color like them, who are educated in Islam here in America. In fact, educated BETTER in Islam than them and who practice it sincerely better than them. But bringing their caste systems and racism to America, they do not respect African-American, even African American Muslims at all. No matter how much they deny it, the truth comes out should their daughters or sons ever want to marry one. Then culture will be used as the racist reason why they would not let two Muslims marry based on the issue of different races...which they will carry the flag of different cultures. Before I delve into that, lets just take it if this was a WHITE muslim convert, a sanctioned Ingrid Mattson who lead the prayer. There would be less animosity because she is a Muslim female who is White. That is to be admired, married with, etc. She would receive less resistance than a African-American or an Immigrant sister. Is this a self-hating community or what? Believe me, there would have been major press releases announcing the fact being sent out by our Muslim organizations. But it took an educated African-American Muslim sister to bring us back to true Islam. And that is an insult that many immigrants, and even some arrogant African-American brothers can not accept. Now let me delve into the African-American and even immigrant brothers. When you are disenfrancized and powerless, who do you seek to make you feel more strong to and powerful? Your women! But instead of partnering with us to make a stronger family and community, you oppress us and use and hide us for your personal benefit. Your ego! Which is constantly discussed about in the Quran. The Rasul (saw) married an older, richer woman in Khadijah and he LOVED her and respected her and she guided him and together they were strong. But in todays Muslim community we are back in Jahiliyah days in how we oppress our women. Put them out to pasture to work for you or your inlaws and use them up and not respect them. Not all brothers do this, but quite a few of the arrogant ones do. Why? Because their lack of self-esteem, their insecurities. Find help brothers to be secure. If not from therapy, then from TRUE reflection of the Quran so that you can respect your hard working sisters and unite with them. And back to the core issue; the same with race. The mother next to the mother of the Rasul (saw) was a Black woman. Umm Ayman. He revered her and respected her. Yet, look at the Ummah today. You hate black women. You only use them as a means to your ends. Accept the reality of what made you hate African-Americans so much. Is it because it makes you feel closer to White Priviledge? Do you think the Rasul (saw) would condone it? And African-American Brothers, descendants of Bilal , the first to call the Adhan to prayer, do you think it is right to oppress your African-American sisters in order to falsely pump up your chests and egos? It is a sad state the community is in. It is a state of DENIAL. And until we are REALLY honest with our racisms and dysfunctions, only can we began to truly, truly, heal....A positive change is needed.