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Topic ClosedPost Partum Depression

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UmmAminata View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2006 at 4:19am

This is unnatural and too much to do. if they have  small children,Women are exhausted and they get very little rest/sleep. -Najamsahar

You know Dr. Northrup talks allot about the system of things.  She doesn't reffer to our system as patriarchical because she believes men are victims of this system too, but explains that every one is affected by this sick psychology.  In'sha'Allah I've loaned all of the books I own written by her to other Muslim mothers but when I get them back I want to look up what she called the system.

It is this sick psychology that causes people to think and function abnormally or naturally. I personally believe that consumerism, capitalism, coporate America, and immaturity contaminate the hearts and minds of so many women world wide.  It's a shame that our economic situation feels the need to compete, minimize or destroy families.  Why can't this be inclusive? Why do they have to be at odds?

 

I feel that feminism for all its worth, has turned a card on the women themselves. I do not know for sure what the ideals of feminism were, but surely the pictures of worked out and washed out women are no models of gender equity.-Najamsahar

 

 I whole heartedly agree with you there.  I read some where that that the movement was started by two Catholic nuns not just Betty Friedan.  Like the Civil Rights movement, I believe they were trying to abolish the seperate but equal standard that harmed the well being of women and children.  Many women were being hospitalized due to severe clinical depression because they couldn't tolerate the marriages and communities they lived in.  If you read feminist literature many mothers with small children committed suicide so women experiencing depression during child bear years is really not a new thing, it's just that the male dominated medical profession has now chosen to accept it as a valid problem.

What I found particularly disheartening is that Muslim women in Europe and the North America's have assimilated so much that they have abosorbed the pathologies of North American peoples. This isn't to say that Muslim countries don't have the same problems or challenges on the contrary they most likely do.  Instead of holding the male scholarship and leadership accountable for the preservation of Muslim motherhood, and Muslim women's rights, there is a certian disgust, and apathy I notice about many well educated Muslima toward sharia and their status.  Why people choose to focus on whack scholars acting like mad scientists is beyond me but never the less they do.

When I read the works of Imam Malik and Imam Shafi'i, women and mothers were clearly honored. Our only two obligations are to guard our husbands property and fufill intimacy aspects of marriage.  Yet some see the last obligation as marital rape, even though women are just as demanding regarding intimacy as men.  Muslim women aren't required to be a super woman so why in the heck trade that in for slavery?

I believe that men should particpate in parenting, child care, and house work, but Islam already has taken care of that? So the truth is, it comes down to the character, integrity, and maturity of the two people involved.  The best thing you can give your children is a good marriage. The truth is most Muslim and non Muslim women are in unhealthy marriages, that they chose to be get into and remain in.  Women never want to talk about this aspect because it's more comforterable to play the victim and blame the man. If your spouse isn't honoring sharia law or the marital agreement you made, that is a MAJOR character and integrity issue. They are violating sharia law by lying, defrauding, and dishonoring their agreements or oaths.  The Prophet pbh tolerated that crap from Ibn Ubay who committed treason at the Siege of Madina almost costing every one their life. He sws only tolerated so much of that from non-Muslim before pre-emptive self defense. The non-Muslim tribes had violated every single treaty and oath they ever took and had the guts to tell the Prophet sws that it was null in void from day one. That was the last straw for the Prophet sws.  Many Muslim spouses display that same sick characteristic of lying, defrauding, and negating their agreements.  So Muslim women but more so it is the children who end up suffering.  I realize no one is perfect but there it is totally unacceptable to lie, defraud, and not follow through on what you decide. Thats also a big maturity issue as well.  I understand certian situations but if you are in a Western Nation there is no excuse for why you are in a poor marriage you brought it on yourself.

I do believe Western women are waking up because many are choosing to sequence their life or stay home peroid.  But many professionally educated women end up suffering from depression, and end up divorced only to see they are back where they started from. Why? Everything for them has to be totally equal and perfect all of the time. I'm not talking about major stuff but little stuff.  I just finished reading a book about a White middle class family where the mom elected to stay home and quit her journalist job. She has a house keeper, a nanny, and a stable situation. Yet if her husband didn't dry one dish and she had to dry it, than that was opression.  If her husband slept in ten minutes than that was opression.  It's attitudes like that , that are self defeating and abusive.  It's a shame we are taught to hate woman hood, motherhood, and marriage.

Salaam

Mrs. Dia
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najamsahar View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2006 at 1:59pm

I think in the US, especially in the suburban communities, women are somehow trapped in a competition trap. The working mother wants to prove that she is the best worker, the best manager, the best PTA mom, the best church (or mosque) mom and the sexiest woman alive.

The stay at home mom wants to be martha stewart too added to all the above.

This is unnatural and too much to do. if they have  small children,Women are exhausted and they get very little rest/sleep.

I feel that feminism for all its worth, has turned a card on the women themselves. I do not know for sure what the ideals of feminism were, but surely the pictures of worked out and washed out women are no models of gender equity.

Najamsahar

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 October 2006 at 9:36am

salaam

ummaminata, i just had to mention that dr.northrup is awesome! 

i think post partum depression is due to many factors having to do your body recovering from childbirth, readjusting itself to its new nonpregnant state, breastfeeding, and all the hormones going. but i agree that lifestyle plays a huge role in the severity of it (however, i am sure that some women will experience severe ppd regardless).

my experience: after my first child was born i read every book i could get my hands on. my mom came to stay with me for a few days to help after my hospital stay. after that i was on my own for the most part. i was a newly SAHM and was adjusting to the isolation, i had set alot of expectations on myself as a mother and just focused primarily on my role as a mother. stress, extreme fatigue, anger and resentment was the result. slowly i started to ease up on myself and stop trying to be supermom....who was i trying for? i had all these preconceived ideas of what a mom was and in reality it is just an illusion. i come from a very large family...how did my mom do it? she had my grandmother living with her, my aunts living in the same apartment building or neighborhood, my uncles wifes also right there. she had a support system with other women...other caretakers to share the load, other women to have tea with or go shopping with easily without the babies, other women to cook for her or with her and other women who were going through the same thing she was. they were not just mothers 24/7 but still very much felt like women. not saying things were easy for her as they were hard times. no washing machine or dryer, no dishwasher is tough with so many kids. taking the older kids to school and feeding a family of 10 daily. keeping a house relatively clean. mashAllah my mom is a fantastic women.

anyway, i really think this topic is so important! thanks for starting it

 

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UmmAminata View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2006 at 11:01am

 

Thank you Hayfa I will check out in'sha'Allah.

To be perfectly honest with you sister, I'd rather be in Senegal half the time. I guess it's different for me becuase my mother is deceased. And my younger sister is also mother living clear across the country.

I agree about our fast paced life. There is a wonderful book called The Price Of Motherhood. It's very informative, and unbiased. She approaches from a non traditional perspective not bashing men, motherhood, and our wombs but taking a hard look at everything in " the machine."

When I became Muslims years ago, I knew that push over image was clearly a lie, I met some tough Arab and Pakistani sisters that weren't playing at all. Some even served in the Army and marines in order to finance their education while raising children.

Hat's off to them  

 

Mrs. Dia
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Hayfa View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2006 at 9:34am

Many of I guess what we may call "working class" women are farming, mothering, cleaning, cooking, sewing all of the families clothes, and some are going to school on top of all this. But becuase there is a national consensus for that, women take care of other women, and the village system is effective.

Yes, alot of women do it "all" in certain areas.. they farm, herd, run small businesses etc. I think why they do not have the smame issues is that it is overall, a less "fast-paced" lifestyle.  It would be interesting to do a cross-cultural study so to speak.

Often people in the west look at other cultures as "backwards" and such. But there is nothing about the positive aspects.

I saw a piece going to be on PBS called My Country My Country, an independent film by a woman who went to Iraq to see behind the scenes in Iraq. She said, the producer to show that women are not "push-overs." and argue etc with their husbands, families etc. There is a lot of steroetypes about people, especially about women in Moslem societies. It is expected to air tonight on PBS at 9pm. To see local listings: http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2006/mycountry/

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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UmmAminata View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2006 at 5:48am

 

I believe it is not the stay at home mum issue but thinking that you need to do all, be a superwoman is more like it. - Angel

A mind is a terrible thing to waste hunh?

 

Sister let me clarify what I meant in what you quoted me on.

What I found during our mother's group research on this issue was that the stay at home mother who is always the primary care taker shouldering home and children while her husband pushes sixty hours a week seems to be limited to Europe and the North America's- and than, not all of Europe. In other nations it appears they still use the village system to care for mother and child. They still believe women need women.

And the superwoman issue.. boy oh boy..

You know what I find interesting sister?

In underdeveloped countries the women actually are doing it all. And proubably then some. Unlike us not all of them have an I-Pod, Sears washer and dryer, and a 2006 Mini Van.

My experience is most related to West Africa.

Many of I guess what we may call "working class" women are farming, mothering, cleaning, cooking, sewing all of the families clothes, and some are going to school on top of all this. But becuase there is a national consensus for that, women take care of other women, and the village system is effective.

For European and North American women we are missing the village system, and the sisterhood of women caring for women. I believe that is why there are so many mothers groups is becuase people are trying to form the modern equivalent of an agrian society again.

Salaam

Mrs. Dia
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Angel View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2006 at 8:48pm
Originally posted by UmmAminata UmmAminata wrote:

I'm wondering if this stay at home mom do it all and be a superwoman is a Western phenomnan?

I believe it is not the stay at home mum issue but thinking that you need to do all, be a superwoman is more like it.

I like the rest of your writing.

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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UmmAminata View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2006 at 5:12pm

 

Salaam Hayfa

You made such an important point about "individualism"- I personally believe that this mentality causes the failure of so many marriages, and the dysfunction within so many families. In a culture that preaches capitalism, or "Just Do It"- individualism is the internal computer chip that is being controlled by coporatations, and greed mongers.

It truly does take a village to raise a child.

And I also agree with you that mental illness is prevalent in traditional societies, however I haven't heard much about Major depression or anexity disorders or situation depression or Seasonal Affective disorders in these countries. I can under major illness such Bipolar disorder, Schizophrenia, Personality disorders.

It seems that our culture, and society are pushing women over the edge. As I think about Andrea Yates, and the Schizophrenic woman who threw her new born, toddler, and school aged child into a river, I often wonder if mental illness is our silent bubonic plague?

Mrs. Dia
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