Post Partum Depression

Peacemaker:

First you were skeptical that there is a phenomenon of apostasy in this era. Reason: your wife and you didn�t know anyone who had done that.

Second, you ask for references. When you are given personal references, you want links.

Third, when you are given links, you don�t think that they are reliable. You delete the links.

Fourth, you undermine the issue by really funny reasons, �numbers of women entering Islam are more� and �that woman was not thinking right�

I attribute the problem to muslims of today and not Islam. This is where I disagree with you most. Islam as practiced today in regards to treatment of women is in very questionable and no one is willing to acknowledge it.

We can talk about what happened 1400 years ago, and how the Quran and Sunnah has elevated women but how does that help the women whose rights are being taken away under the shadow of Islam?

I do not know what you were expecting, a ticker tape on Islamicity or ISNA website showing the apostates? Maybe you know the punishment for apostasty in Islam ? The rationale behind this is that the apostates don�t spread any fitnah among the righteous.

If anyone likes to have and keep a certain view of the religion and issues that are plaguing it, they are free to do so. However, can these views influence someone who has experienced a different picture of Islam? Can opinions take the place of experience, I don�t think so.

I have far more experience (unfortunately) firsthand of many issues that I have mentioned in my posts. Your explanations come across as amusing if not ridiculous.

Lastly, I have neither read nor followed any maulvis. I have lived in four countries till now and have closely observed muslim societies in these countries, including Canada.

 Like you I have followed the scholars you have mentioned. My issue is with the scholars you mentioned. Let me elaborate ( your favorite word)

Dr Zakir Naik : His focus is dawah to non muslims. Through his talks, he mainly dispels myths about women in Islam, his pet topics are polygyny, purdah, right of the women to work and so on . But I do not know of any effort he has made to address any of the issues that I mentioned in my first post. If you have, please elaborate.

Dr Jamal Badawi: He has written a book named �gender equity in Islam�, it is one of the thinnest book I have come across. He does talk about how islam has elevated the status of women etc.

Hamza Yusuf: He is the one scholar that has strongly put forward that 3 of the 4 madhabs believe that domestic chores are not the responsibility of women.

I am not aware of the works of Imam Shakir, will look up the next time I am in the States inshaAllah.

But what the scholars say is nothing new. Islam in not flexible and there is no room for doubt. So whether you read the Hadith books, tafsirs or you listen to the scholars, Alhamdulillah there is no controversy.

Again, this is not helping those who are in need. How many of the muslims actually read up and reflect? Out of the ones that do, most are those who are oppressed. The oppressors rarely read and reflect. And where do these scholars stand in way of making social progress? I have to go back to my original post where I said that there has to be a sustained effort from EVERY side, ISNA, scholars, MYNA, MSA�, local masjids. There should be community efforts and efforts at the family level. Anything short of this will simply not suffice.

Najamsahar

peacemaker wrote: Assalamu Alaikum, najamsahar: "Four women that I know on a personal basis, thus being very sure of what I am saying apostasted. I dont know what you mean by references, do you want their names?" By references I meant links to reliable sources such as web site links where I could study further on the matter.

Peacemaker, I read the other posts where you kept on wanting sources but not every source is on the internet  Please don't come down hard on people if they provide sources outside the internet and/or ones you prefer not to be posted on the forum. You ask you get   

UmmAminata wrote:   I believe it is not the stay at home mum issue but thinking that you need to do all, be a superwoman is more like it. - Angel A mind is a terrible thing to waste hunh? Sister let me clarify what I meant in what you quoted me on. What I found during our mother's group research on this issue was that the stay at home mother who is always the primary care taker shouldering home and children while her husband pushes sixty hours a week seems to be limited to Europe and the North America's- and than, not all of Europe. In other nations it appears they still use the village system to care for mother and child. They still believe women need women. And the superwoman issue.. boy oh boy.. You know what I find interesting sister? In underdeveloped countries the women actually are doing it all. And proubably then some. Unlike us not all of them have an I-Pod, Sears washer and dryer, and a 2006 Mini Van. My experience is most related to West Africa. Many of I guess what we may call "working class" women are farming, mothering, cleaning, cooking, sewing all of the families clothes, and some are going to school on top of all this. But becuase there is a national consensus for that, women take care of other women, and the village system is effective. For European and North American women we are missing the village system, and the sisterhood of women caring for women. I believe that is why there are so many mothers groups is becuase people are trying to form the modern equivalent of an agrian society again. Salaam

Hi UmmAminata, just acknowledging your post, i don't disagree with it. It's intereting what you said about mothers groups, hadn't thought about that before.

UmmAminata wrote:   Peace Maker I have read your post regarding the rules and will abide by them.  I honestly did not think the books by Ibn Waraqa were Islam bashing books. The websites you have a good point about, but the books are  not people ranting and raving, brother the majority of his books are quoting scripture, classical references, and written in conjunction with other scholars. I do believe the Anti-Islam bashers can help us.  I recall a bible verse that says " keep your enemies closer than your friends."  Well, if Muslims are sincere about researching the reasons for apostation, and are sincere about wanting to reverse this, they are going to half to get their hands dirty, and play in the mud.  You can do anything about what you wont acknowledge? Their arguements, positions, and feelings are not invaluable or worthless, they are still Allah's slaves no matter how much they reject Allah, it is to him they will return, just like you and I. Salaam

That is your opinion, and I respect that.

But, works of the likes of Ibn Waraq has no place here. Period.

We don't have a section titled, "Why I am not a Muslim." And I agree with that. There is no point to think along those lines.