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SimplyMuslim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SimplyMuslim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2005 at 11:07am
The book that will lead themto the right path is the Qu'ran, The holy book of Islam.
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Brother123 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brother123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2005 at 4:53pm
kim! wrote:

Surely the main message for Christians is "Love your God, Love thy neighbour as thyself"  ie:REspect God and be nice to each other!

Yes and if he aint a christain kill him. (if all neibours are christain then obviously they gona love they neighbour)

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cypriot Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2005 at 5:28am
Brother if he aint a Christian killhim? What are you on about? Is that how you are taught to be speak? Ever since i was young, my freinds have been muslim and we get on better than some of our own cultural freinds. Be careful what you say, its notgood to generalise
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Ali Zaki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ali Zaki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2005 at 11:45am

Peace and Salam to all,

We are a little "off-topic" from the orignal post, however, I would like to provide some feedback from someone who was born and raised (until 21) as a Christian, and converted to Islam.

The idea that Christians are just waiting for the chance to slaughter Muslims is not true (in my experience), and vice versa. The hatred and hostility that has developed between Muslims and Christians over the centuries is, in my opinion, a result of two things. 1.) Legitimate doctrinal differences that neccessitate a certain emotional and intellectual "distance" from one another (this is the smaller part) and 2.) Illegitimate mistrust and fear based on stereotypes and misunderstandings about the others beliefs (this is most of it).

I have participated in actual (meaning face to face) interfaith dialogues and have almost chuckled to myself when, inevitably, my Muslim brothers make comments like, " WoW. They were really nice!" Then I say, " When they said they wanted to have us for dinner did you think they wanted to EAT US?"

Although Muslims do not accept the Bible as being the unchanged Word of God, as Christians do, Muslims will find many similar stories, moral principles in the Bible that exist in the Quran. In addition, any Chrisitian who reads the Bible must admit (if they are honest), that there are many parts which are confusing, shocking and even pornographic (i.e., descriptions of Prophets having incesteous relationships with their children, etc.). Most Chrisitians, however, are only marginally (if at all) familiar with the ENTIRE bible, and only memorize certain verses which conform with current Church doctrine.

On a day to day, person to person leve, however, Muslims and Christians generally get along very well. I live in a majority Christian country (the U.S.), however, I have experienced very little discrimination or hostility from those who are aware of my religious beliefs. The harmonious co-existance should be encouraged, promoted and protected by both Christians and Muslims.

I would also say to my Christian brothers and sisters that, as you would not want your religion to be judged based on the behavior of Christians, do not judge Islam based on the behavior of Muslims. I would encourage the brave among you to get a copy of the Quran (In fact, I think C.A.I.R., Council on American Islamic Relations,  is sending them our for free now) and read it. May Allah (God) help and guide us all to the straight path.

 

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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kim! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kim! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2005 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by Ali Zaki Ali Zaki wrote:

 

  In addition, any Chrisitian who reads the Bible must admit (if they are honest), that there are many parts which are confusing, shocking and even pornographic (i.e., descriptions of Prophets having incesteous relationships with their children, etc.). 

True - most us have never read the entire Bible. Mind you, and I mean no disrespect, most Christians would probably choke at the thought of a prophet marrying a child under the age of 10 as much as reading about other prophets committing incest.

Besides, if you believe the creation story, incest was inevitable back in The Old Days because Adam and Eve only had 2 sons. Where did the rest of the human race come from?

Kim...

 

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Ali Zaki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ali Zaki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 June 2005 at 6:24am

Peace Kim,

I'm surprised that you would equate the legal, accepted practice of the Prophets marriage to Aisha when she was legally a women according to Islam and her cuture with an abhorent practice (incest) that has never been accepted by any culture, religion at any place or time.

Quickly, here's the difference.

Marriageable Age of Women

Historically, the accepted, marriageable age of a women has varied widely based on the circumstances and situation of both the culture, the family and the individual. Allah (God) has set a minimum (the onset of puberty), and has left it to the society to determine the specific, acceptable age. To attempt to apply the current, acceptable standards of Western culture today, where the average lifespan is 80+ years (versus 50+ at the time of the prophet), and the infant mortality rate is low (was very high at the time of the Prophet) is misleading at best. Much more can be said regarding this matter, but I will leave it to others or another time.

Incest

Incest, or course, is an abhorent practice that is totally indefensible. Allah (God) has made revulsion for this practice so ingrained in humanity that there is not evidence that any society has ever accepted it. The religious, physicological, biological objections to this are so many and so obvious that defense of it becomes impossible under any circumstances. Islam teaches us that Allah created a way for the children of Adam and Eve to avoid this tragedy (although their are some disagreements among scholars on the exact details regarding how this was done), and no Muslim scholar would dare say that a Prophet of Allah would engage in such practices. I am surprised how my Christians brother accept behavior from the prophets that they would not accept for themselves.

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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kim! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kim! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 June 2005 at 5:47pm

It doesn't matter what is legal in various places - it is _still_ true that many Christians would think an old man marrying what they regard as a young child utterly abhorent and indefensible.

I'm not discussing legalities and illegalities, I was talking about how people view different situations.

I mean, would _you_ marry a 9 year-old? And if not, why not?

How would you have punished Mary Kay Letourneau, the teacher who had sex with the 12 year-old boy? Would you charge her with rape and child-molestation or adultery? (They got married the other day, by the way. I only just noticed it on the internet!)

Kim...

 

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Ali Zaki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ali Zaki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 June 2005 at 7:20am

Peace to Kim,

Your direct question is easy to answer (of course), NO! Why not? The reasons are many 1.) A nine year old (in the United States in 2005) is a young child and not remotely ready, willing or able to accept either the rights or responsibilities of marriage, 2.) It is illegal 3.) I do not have the means nor the desire to take on the responsibilities of supporting and protecting another wife (since I already have one)...and the list goes on and on...

Islam is a universal relgion and is equally applicable to all people in all ages and places. As a result, Islam gives clear guidance on things such as the (wajib) and forbidden (haram), the recommended (mustahab) and discouraged (makruh). Some types of decision are left (completely) to the individual, and others are left conditionally to the individual. The decisions in the last category will depend on the time and society in which the individual lives, as well as the regulations of Islam.

The age of marriage is one example of the last category, as are many other things (such as polygamy, marriage to "those whom your right hand posseses (which is not applicable in our age), and others). Islam is not a rigid or prudish religion, and it gives rights and responsibilities to men and women that are consistent with their natural desires and duties.

Regarding the molestation of the 12-year old boy by his teacher, this is a completely different matter for several reasons. For one thing, this did not occur in a Muslim society and, therefore, their is no question as to whether punishment would be instituted according to Sharia law. Let's say it did occur in a Muslim society (for the sake of argument), then the it is a double (or maybe triple) crime because 1.) In Islamic law, a boy cannot consent to marriage until puberty (which is much later in boys, around 14-15) and 2.) It is also adultry (on the womens part) because (I believe) she was already married or fornication (if she was unmarried).

One more point, If a female (regardless of her age) is still living with her parents, then the man must be given permission by the father to marry his daughter. What is better protection for the women then her fathers consent.

Peace.

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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