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Women-Led Friday Prayer

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qpeace1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpeace1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 1:32pm

This is for Sister Ummah,

Sister, I think you know this isn't a racist issue.  I'm black and didnt' know the sister was until someone posted pictures.  We are talking islamic tradition and the same reaction would have been given it she was nonblack.  Secondly, why would men feel insecure if she gave the khutbah?  SHE and yourself are saying this right?  You see, anytime a women does what a man normally does and a man opens and disagree with a point she makes (as he does with other men) women say he is insecure.  This is a cop out.  She is free in America to do as she wills.  I wouldn't attend her jumah.  Not because she is black(that should be a reason to support her..no?) but because the deen is preserved statically in this area (although islam is dynamic) and this is innovation.  Someone raised a good point concerning muslim female students in France standing up to the France government to keep wearing hijab.  I would think the sister would throw her weight behind and issue such as that. 

 Third, I'm muslim strong sister, I don't have to be accepted by White, nonmuslim Blacks, Muslims or anyone else.  Looking for acceptance went out in the 60's with MLKing Jr.  I study the arabic, the different branches of thought, Shia islam, sunna, while still remaining competition in the IT industry and a family man.  Being a descendant of slaves and having knowledge of Allah makes a brother deal with this soceity head on!! I'm talking over 20 years of marriage, twins in college and STILL go to jumah as an African American, dredlocked, leather jacket wearing muslim.  I'm who I am and dont care you doesn't like it; therefore I dont have burden of "being accepted" or lean heavily on "race".  Perhaps if you view a muslim matrimonial website, you'll see many "foriegn" muslim dont rely on "race" as well. 

Fourth,  since when do black women allow themselves to be marginalized, mistreated and disrespected by black men?  Muslim or not.  When?  Sure there are some brothers who misunderstand the application of islam especially in America but most have a good grasp on it.  We elevate and respect our women IF they respect us as men.  Most don't so please don't put us into the same category as some irresponsible nonmuslims.  We all know there are blessed and wise believing sisters and I'd protect and defend them.   However, for the Khutbah, I'm following the over 1400 years of tradition.  Now, do you have a problem with that?

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qpeace1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpeace1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 1:36pm

CORRECTION: I meant to say "I don't care WHO doesn't like it."  Not "I dont care YOU don't like it."

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abuayisha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuayisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 1:38pm

..."The lack of respect towards this sister INDEED has to do with the fact that she is BOTH a woman and African-American.  Your attempt to deny that reality is baseless. "

  Sister Ummah, most certainly there are some who may not respect Dr. Wudud, but generally speaking, I believe most simply disagree with her fiqh position.  That includes women, African-Americans, and immigrants.  Again, in my estimation, this is not a gender or race based issue, but of a very strange fiqh position that Dr. Wudud has articulated.

  I would suggest that your insistence at playing the "race card" may only be a projection of your personal disposition.  Remember, African Americans can also be racist.

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Sis Ummah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sis Ummah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by qpeace1 qpeace1 wrote:

We elevate and respect our women IF they respect us as men.  Most don't so please don't put us into the same category as some irresponsible nonmuslims.  We all know there are blessed and wise believing sisters and I'd protect and defend them.   However, for the Khutbah, I'm following the over 1400 years of tradition.  Now, do you have a problem with that?

Your definition of respect may be different from the Islamic definition of respect.  For example you say IF they respect us as men.  And what if they don't?  Do you beat them or worse?

There are alot of African-American brothers saying they are following 1400 years of tradition.  Such as having 4 wives here in the U.S. 1 who is legally sanctioned and legitimate by US laws and 3 who are illegal.  And of the 4 women, many are not even being supported as the Quran states.  You can have 4 wives if you can provide for them legally.  But most are being provided for by the state with welfare and food stamps. 

I don't know your situation brother, so please do not take personally.  But I do know of many African-American Muslim men, as well as immigrant men, who brind up the 1400 years of tradition and are just using it as an excuse.  You can not pick and choose the sunnah.

For all the brothers speaking of 1400 years of tradition, I have yet to see any men in their 20's searching for a woman in her 40's.  After all, wasn't that the way of the Rasul (saw) with Khadijah?

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ibn muslim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ibn muslim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 1:46pm

Sis Ummah-

So Prof Wadud-actually made things worse. Her actions, and the actions of her supporters (as one can tell by reading the posts), are basically emotional outlets for what they perceive as being treated as inferior Muslims compared to their Male counterparts.

I see much more discrimination from the Media today towards Muslim (men and women) than ever before. Yet, where is Prof Wadud, in the fight against the way muslims are portrayed in TV and film and on the news? I do not see her fighting for Muslims who face discrimination at the workplace because they want to pray or wear hijab.

She is not meeting congressmen and congresswomen or senators, or mayors and fighting for our civil rights.

No-she wants to fight for Women led prayers, and gay rights.....things that really are not the most important issues facing muslims post 9/11. Things that the great majority of Muslims really do not want to deal with.

You beleive in democracy, well the majority has spoken. yes women face discrimination, and yes their is racism, but that does not mean that women led prayers is supproted by the Sunnah, or that we need a new American Madhab.

We have suffered so much after 9/11-and the situation of women in Islam is getting better in America , based on the representation of women in groups like CAIR, MPAC, and hundreds of Masajid in the country---yes there is still a lot of problems and inequalities, and yes still some racism, but I think that there have been great successes-there is improvement.

But-Prof Wadud wants to use the opportunity to target Muslims, while Muslims are already being targetted. While are masajid are being targetted, people being deported, and our charities being closed, and our rights being taken away.

They are even talking about internment camps for Muslims if God-Forbid another 9/11 happens.

Please---relax, and think with your head. Prioritize, and think....Look at the arguments of the Wadud supporters--The Prophet (PBUH) is not their concern---the Sunnah is not their concern. That in itself should help you determine what is right and what is forbidden.

AA

 

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Sis Ummah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sis Ummah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by abuayisha abuayisha wrote:

Remember, African Americans can also be racist.

..and so what is your point?  People with power are those who are the racists primarily.  And when an immigrant is aligning themselves with priviledge and power to oppress African-Americans, they are also racists.

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Sis Ummah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sis Ummah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by ibn muslim ibn muslim wrote:

She is not meeting congressmen and congresswomen or senators, or mayors and fighting for our civil rights.

Why should she fight for our civil rights when our own house is not clean???!!  Our house is dirty and we need to clean up our own internal messes and stop denying them.  Civil Rights is an issue, but basic human rights in our own households and towards our women and people of color is a Allah given issue.  One that our Ummah is denying and refusing to respect.

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ibn muslim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ibn muslim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2005 at 2:00pm

Sis Ummah-

My house is clean. Perhaps some are more clean than others. Maybe the majority of women who I have interacted with over through various Muslim groups, just are not as intelligent as you. Maybe they are naieve, and their minds are brainwashed, and only you and a few "chosen" people have seen the light.

I think not sister. Let us not be drama queens or dram kings. There are problems. There is no denial of that. But, based on what the majority of American Muslims feel (both men and women) is that Prof Wadud is out of line with the Sunnah.

Her actions have nothing to do with "reform" as they have to do with "innovation"--there is a big difference between the too.

Compensation for what is right and permissable in Islam-differs from what is wrong, and forbidden---and is a result of overcompensation.

AA

 

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