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rami 
Moderator Group
Male
Joined: 01 March 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 2549
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 Posted: 14 March 2007 at 3:02am |
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheemI seem to be meeting a lot of people lately who submit there will to people before they do to allah as they place right and wrong in the hands of this dunya beffore the Quran and sunnah. I didn't hear rasul allah(saw) practice this in his household. if did -show me pl.
which means absolutely nothing, is it a principle of law that he must do so for something to be permissible.
Masha allah, isnt it enough for you that he gave instruction on how to do it!
I say my dad was Muslim & grand pa was and could care less before
that cuz all the the Muslim people were colonized then so their being
Muslim or or what ever is immaterial.
if you are not educated in the basics of Islam why are you commenting on them?
Your welcome to your personnel opinion but you are not welcome to make up things about islam and islamic law!!
I had never heard of this female circumcisions till recently (in my
golden years) when I heard late last year some Ethiopian dude(Khalid
Adem) was convicted and sent to jail for 15 years in Georgia for doing
this surgery on his 2 year old daughter. The Africans or mid
easterners morons brought the practice to the US in order to give a
black eye to the Islamic community. This after cartoons ruckus didn't
help the already maligned Islamic faith.
Islamic law is clear it doesnt change simply becouse you are embarrassed.
And I didn't see your face taking the mike infront of the TV camera for an obvious matter in our deen.
wow now TV is the criterion of right and wrong, if its right on TV it must be right 
but now I know the status of this obvious matter goes as follows:
Islamic law is in the hands of the madhhabs not any government. You and they are welcome to do as you please.
Rami it is law of the land which decides unless someone loves the place in the big house.
i would rather assume you are uneducated than a kafir, becouse in the above you have placed "the law of the land" above the Quran and sunnah.
Even if you can not practice something which Islam permits in a non Islamic country you should believe in your heart that it is still right and this is the lowest form of Iman.
You do have a tendency of pull rank --but you are not the mod any more so there -Thank God.
only a person who follows people in authority blindly and submits there will to them out of fear perceives matters the way you do. If you have never done this in the past you would not recognise it in such a way at all [in plain english, it takes one to know one].
Haq is in the hands of rasul allah [salla llahu alaihi wa sallam] and Allah not any man or earthly authority.
I guess only time will show that my style of posting wont change in general and that i wasn't pulling rank as you perceive it but stating what is clearly within Islamic limits to people who largely have no clue about Islam and invent there own laws as they like.
I hope you are resident in a safe Aussi state and be safe for preaching this !
Islamic law is clear, i am stating what the ulama have said not my own personnel opinion. the least you can do is make that distinction but you seem to be more interested in attacking me.
Edited by rami
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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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UmmTaaha
Senior Member
Joined: 10 August 2006
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 159
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Posted: 19 March 2007 at 5:40am |
 Sign Reader wrote:
I didn't hear rasul allah(saw) practice this in his household. if did -show me pl. |
Hadith or sunnah is not only what rasul Allah practised ... there are various categories of sunnah, one of which is "sunnah by Iqrar"
ie something which he (saw) did not oppose or forbid.
Perhaps you do not understand the words wajib and sunnah muakkadah, .... this may lead to finding only halal or haram in rulings. Where in realitly rulings are based on as many as 8 categories in hanafi madhab, and 4-5 in other madhabs.
Something which has been recommended, no muslim can grade it in the category of makruh or haram. That is the very basic of the laws of sharia.
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Adab with Allah is the proper fruit of obedience - Habib Ali Jifri
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hat2010
Senior Member
Joined: 10 October 2006
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 561
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Posted: 19 March 2007 at 3:56pm |
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Bismillah,
If I lived in the time of the Prophet (pbuh) and he really did say that, I would
ask him to reconsider, as females lose sensitivity in the clitoris as well as the
general unpleasant weirdness of the operation.
p.s someone is mapping the human genome right now, someone else is
puzzling over whether to circumcize a female. Any guesses why my more
modern Africa peers are flocking to the west?
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umsami
Groupie
Joined: 12 May 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 75
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Posted: 10 April 2007 at 9:46am |
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Assalamu Alaikum:
We are not supposed to do something that is harmful, right? And the effects of female circumcision are extensive--including death to the girl undertaking it as well as to any future children she may have. (See the WHO study done in 2006).
Let's also not forget that to call somebody a "circumciser of women" was an insult in the Prophet's (saws) time. If it was a virtuous thing--then it wouldn't be an insult, right?
Islam is also a religion that encourages mutual sexual pleasure--and by removing any portion of a woman's clitoris, one removes her pleasure... thus harming the success and happiness of the marriage.
It is in no way similar to male circumcision. To make them the same, one would remove a portion or the entire penis--rather than just the foreskin.
Also...it predates Islam and was practiced in Pharaonic times and in the Jahiliya. The practice is limited (thank God) in the Muslim world to mainly Egypt and other African countries. It is practiced among Muslims and Christians--and is not an exclusively Muslim practice.
Finally, many Muslim scholars met at Al-Azhar last November and declared that this practice is not Islamic and a crime against humanity. http://www.yoursdaily.com/world_news/middle_east/islam_outla ws_female_genital_mutilation
"The religous scholars at the conference were the following: Grand Mufti
and Patron of Al-Azhar: Prof. Dr. Ali Goma'a; the Grand Sheikh of
Al-Azhar: Prof. Dr. Mohamed Sayed Tantawi; the Minister of Religion of
Egypt: Prof. Dr. Mahmoud Hamdi Zakzouk; Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi from
Qatar; Sheikh Hissein Hassan Abkar from Chad; Imam Mahammadou Diallo
from Mali; Imam Bal El Bechir from Mauritania; Sheikh Mohamed Darassa
from Ethiopia, and Imam Tarafa Baghrajati from Austria. Reports were
given by medical experts from Egypt, Ethiopia, and Germany."
Peace.
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aka2x2
Senior Member
Male
Joined: 12 September 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 446
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Posted: 10 April 2007 at 10:31am |
I agree with Jamal 100%.
We seem to forget two important issues. First, there is not total agreement on authenticity of all Hadiths among all Muslims. It is wrong to call another Muslim a Kafir simply because he doubts the authenticity of a particular Hadith. This kind of talk has dehumanized us and made it easier to go to war with each other. Second, even if the Hadith were authentic, the Prophet never claimed he was infallible. In fact there are verses in the Quran attesting to his human fallibility. So, I too would have asked him to reconsider.
I was born in a Muslim country. However, I did not even know what female circumcision was until I was accused of practicing it in the West. Frankly, if this practice is isolated to such a small group of Muslims, it is very likely to be cultural and not religious, even though its practitioners believe otherwise.
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Respectfully
 aka2x2
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Abeer23
Senior Member
Joined: 28 September 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 493
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Posted: 10 April 2007 at 8:35pm |
umsami wrote:
Assalamu Alaikum:
Also...it predates Islam and was practiced in Pharaonic times and in the Jahiliya. The practice is limited (thank God) in the Muslim world to mainly Egypt and other African countries. It is practiced among Muslims and Christians--and is not an exclusively Muslim practice.
Peace.
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As salamu alikum. Actually sister, though I DO NOT advocate it, female circumcision is not limited to the regions you've mentioned. It is practiced in many Eastern countires. My Malay sisters tell me that in Malaysia, if a woman is not circumcised she cannot be burried in a Muslim cemetary. I know a Thai convert that married a Indian/Malaysian Brother and had to have this done in order to get a legal marriage certificate (why she agreed I'll never know ).
Salaam
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Aminah07
Senior Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 219
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Posted: 12 April 2007 at 5:13am |
WAS,
so is it required or not?
i was shocked by abeer23's posting about not getting permission for marriage or burial. it has never been mentioned at any halaqa that i've gone to or attended when srs' issues are discussed. i'm just assuming that this is not a common practice today at least with births in the west.
Aminah
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amah
Moderator Group
Female
Joined: 18 March 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1334
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Posted: 12 April 2007 at 3:10pm |
Bismillahirrahmanirraheem
assalaamualaikum
guideline no 4. When discussing issues dealing with Islam, please support your comments with the Quran or Sunnah. Mocking any Quranic reference, Hadith, scholar, or member will not be tolerated. If you are stating something about a religion, please list your source. If it is an opinion, please state this fact.
Whoever claims that a hadith is daeef, should present his reference. It is apalling that muslims with little knowledge of islam (which they make obvious) go as far as to say that a hadeeth is daeef just because they do not agree with it.
If someone does not wish to follow a particular sunnah, then it is upto them. coming here and making baseless statements is not only misleading others but you may be sinning by such remarks about a hadith which may be the prophet's words. what would you tell Allah on the day of judgement for this action?
genital mutilation and circumcision are two entirely different things. get this into your heads for Allah's sake.
la haula wa la quwwata illa billa.
wassalaam.
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Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)
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